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Old 08-18-2017, 03:27 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 16
Year: 1966
Coachwork: Ward-AmTran
Chassis: international S-Chassis #1653
Engine: Int. 9.0L 165bhp / AT545
ID bus, confusing line setting ticket.

Hello all, I need some help figuring out the dates and perhaps even past usage of my bus. The guys at the facebook skoolie nation page where of great help to point out some discrepancies.

The import data, metal tag under the hood, and the line ticket all claim my bus is from '66. However the body and hood cannot possibly be. Those are from '79-'89 without a doubt so told all the folks me. So what is it then, a '66 S-series chassis with a later bolted on body? The odd thing is that the S-series had 4 models: the S1723, S1753, S1823, and S1853. The line ticket says it's a 1653..

Was this an ex-military vehicle? The ticket, and sticker in the cab point at this.
And what type of body would this be then, Carpenter? Note the high body ridge on the roof.




What do these tags mean?

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Old 08-18-2017, 04:29 PM   #2
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In the late 70's, IH built a similar hood for the Loadstar series trucks. It is possible at some point this bus had some front end damage or rust, and a later style hood retrofitted.

Need a little more info. Photo of the builder tag under the hood, what engine it has (photos will help if you don't know, or can't ID it). The 60's was a time for the 1600-series IH trucks; the later (80's) 1700 and 1800 series designations followed by "23" usually denoted a gas engine, the "53" designation being diesel.
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:39 PM   #3
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has an ether button on it.. im guessing diesel? unless in really cold states they used wither in gassers? but I was thinking that was a no no.
-Christopher
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:42 PM   #4
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if its a 79 or newer it usually had an 8 gauge panel.. with 2 round large center gauges.. and a set of 3 smaller gauges on each edge.. various lights down the center..

the steering wheel would have a triangular plastic horn button and 3 spokes..
-Christopher
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:16 PM   #5
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The photo of the sticker inside - it is also possible that panel was swapped with another (newer/older) bus. On my BlueBird, the panel is simply screwed on so it would not be difficult to swap it to another BlueBird. Look for the sticker/plate under the hood.
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:22 PM   #6
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Chassis: International 3800
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Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I never even realized AmTran nameplate was in use in the 60s.. the bus body itself looks like a WARD from the curved windshield. were AmTran and Ward the same company back that far?

and it seemed Ward shared a lot of parts (even down to the switches, panels, and defroster vents) with Superior

-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:42 AM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 16
Year: 1966
Coachwork: Ward-AmTran
Chassis: international S-Chassis #1653
Engine: Int. 9.0L 165bhp / AT545
Thanks for all the input all.

Here are some more pics, including the label under the bonnet. I left it out because it isn't particularly helpful..
The engine is the 9.0L, 165 bhp, paired with the AT545 4 speed. Another oddity is that in the import docs the engine is listed as 7000cc, which can't be right. This can be a cockup while importing though since barely anyone here encounters International vehicles on a regular basis.





Cabin and body close-up:

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Old 08-19-2017, 02:18 PM   #8
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That is a late 70's into the 80's steering wheel, the 9 liter engine did not exist in the 60's, at545 did not exist, I think your bus was mislabeled intentionally for importation
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:20 PM   #9
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Wow. Hmm. The gauges and steering wheel indicate 79-up. The under-hood ID plate, as well as the stickers, indicate '66. The engine will be the next clue, as the DV550 (9.0L) began production in '66 (there should be a sticker/plate on the engine that, if legible, may provide more clues). It is possible, however unlikely, that the frame, mechanicals, and body were built in '66 but was rebuilt with updated gauges and such at some point.

If it were me, I'd go on and title and register it as a '66 model (if things go smoothly at your DMV), since all the documentation shows it. It's also possible someone swapped the ID plates to work around import laws; the original engine possibly being a 7.0L of some variety (or just claimed to be).
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
That is a late 70's into the 80's steering wheel, the 9 liter engine did not exist in the 60's, at545 did not exist, I think your bus was mislabeled intentionally for importation
The 9.0 *Did* exist, beginning in '66. It was more commonly known (at the time) as the DV550. I cannot say the same for the AT545 (though it could have been retrofitted at some later date).
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #11
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Join Date: May 2009
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Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the defroster vent and switch panel are indictive of a late 70s - 80s Ward (which later became amtran) body...

and yes hood, steering wheel and gauges are 79-89..
-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:13 PM   #12
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What you have here is your classic Tooele bus (pronounced like "tool", DON'T get me into all the puns and bad jokes about the name or depot........). For whatever reason Tooele blended two or three different buses together to make this one. Judging from the information available they took the chassis of the '66, the hood of a mid 70's, and the body of an early '70s bus and rebuilt them into this bus. I suspect the original body had some damage (tree falling on it, rollover, etc.) the hood may have been damaged during the train ride, and there were two other buses - perhaps one with a good body, but with a blown drivetrain and hood damage, and a third with a good hood, or just a spare hood in NOS inventory. It's much quicker and cheaper to flip the body onto a good chassis and bolt on a new hood than to try to replace a bad drivetrain. Heck with all of the overhead hoists that Tooele has it's ridiculously quick. I've been in the government surplus business for almost 20 years. I've been to many of these places. This bus fits the "find some stuff to slap together and send it outta here" mentality.

Just my two cents.

Oh, BTW, those data plates are soooooo out of whack it's downright scary - yet funny too..... Here are the real M44/45/46 M57/58 tanks...... Now you know why the azimuth and tee handle / foot pedal firing data plate is there on the bus......... Kinda scary huh?

M
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:35 PM   #13
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Wow, that thing must have been built on a Friday or a Monday!
I want the air horns!
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 16
Year: 1966
Coachwork: Ward-AmTran
Chassis: international S-Chassis #1653
Engine: Int. 9.0L 165bhp / AT545
Hah, this is proving to be quite fun to dig into!
I have the following theory then as to where my bus comes from.

The sticker on the dash and both metal plates indicate that this must have been an ex-army vehicle at some point. Or at least the chassis was some support type of vehicle in the 60ties with a truck body, DV-462, DV-550 or DV-461 (gas) & manual trans. (the shoddy installed trans cover plate in the cab comes to mind). One that follows tracked vehicles around as a ammunition/repair truck. The 'tracked vehicle speeds' sticker on the dash hints at this, and the metal plate denoting how to 'foot fire' must have been some leftover item when the tanks/mobile artillery became obsolete in the late 70ties/80ties.

The chassis was still good, so in the late 70ties they dumped the DV-462, DV-550 or DV-461 (gas) + manual trans for a newer 9.0L with AT545, and slapped on a Ward school bus body which strongly looks like mine. Since the military stickers and odd plates are all still there they must have continued using it to transport troops around.

Then in 1998 came Mr. Importer, and him being a clever bastard looked for an 60 era bus from outside the 'rustbelt'. one that had minimal rust, and was old enough to avoid road taxes and classify here as an 'oldtimer vehicle'. The same reasons I bought it last month.
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