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Old 04-29-2010, 09:47 PM   #1
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Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

I took out my instrument cluster to replace the bulbs that are burnt out. There were eight out all together. I noticed though that there are two indicator lights separate from the circuit board that were already unplugged, so I am not sure where they go to.



One of them has a white wire and a grey wire labeled 19L
The other has two grey wires one labeled 19K and 19B



Does anyone have a Thomas / International 3800 / DT466E that might have the same two sets of lights and could advise? Or maybe someone has a schematic maybe that has the wire labels?

Any help would really be appreciated.



Looking at the cluster, there are 4 places that they likely fit.
The 4 upper left holes (in white area) are the right side when looking at the front
WATER IN FUEL
FUEL FILTER
PTO
LOW BRAKE FLUID

The 4 lower left holes in (white area) are the left when looking at the front
RETARD ON
RETARD OVER HEAT
CHANGE TRANS FLUID
ALTENATOR






Just to take a 100% shear guess, I would think the most likely of these 8 options that they probably go to water in fuel and low brake fluid.

Can anyone provide suggestions or advice on what these really are and/or how I might trip these sensors without actually creating the respective condition?

The only silver lining is the buls test okay and aren't lit up! Also they don't light when the ignition is first started either.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:59 AM   #2
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

Thanks emberglow,

When I turn the ignition on, only a couple lights turn on momentarily. I don't think they all flash momentarily on this model. The engine warn light stays on a sec then goes out, and the e-brake light stays lit, cause the brake is engaged. I found the below image that is similar to my instrument panel cluster:



from: http://www.internationaltrucks.com/I...WIPCMANUAL.PDF

Also the two lights don't come on when I turn my headlights on, so I don't think they are just more back lights either.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:49 AM   #3
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

A lot of times they'll have extra wires, plugs, and bulbs for optional equipment. Remember, the chassis for that bus has a lot of similar parts with medium duty trucks. If the lights aren't hooked up to anything, I wouldn't worry about it. The 8 lights you mentioned in the lower panels are all optional equipment.

On a school bus of that vintage, you should only ever see the following lights (unless there's some funky option I haven't seen yet):
Top row: Turn and high beam indicators.
Left column: Oil/Water (low/high water temp or oil pressure), Brake Press (low brake fluid pressure), Stop Engine, Warn Engine (check engine)
Right column: Wait to Start (glow plugs - DTs don't have them), Park Brake

emberglow, you're correct, the diagram you have is for the body wiring. Completely separate from the chassis, and many of the wire numbers are repeated. On a conventional, the general rule is:
Chassis = Anything in the front dash panel and under the hood
Body = Anything in the left switch panel, heater/defrosters, and door handle, and behind/overhead.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:11 AM   #4
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

I'm not sure how I missed it before .... I replaced the bulbs in those 2 extra lights I am concerned with, and the one with the white and grey wire will light up when I turn the key one click to the right and stays on until I actually start the engine, after which it stays lit for almost exactly 5 seconds before going out again. The other one with two grey wires never comes on at all.

So the correct sequence that happens is as follows:
When I first turn the ignition one click to the right the Oil/Water light comes on for a moment along with the warn engine light and both go out. The brake light also lights and stays on because the brake is engaged. The extra light stays lit for 5 seconds after starting the engine and then goes out.

Any ideas?

Thank you!
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:28 AM   #5
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by busdriver_phil
On a school bus of that vintage, you should only ever see the following lights (unless there's some funky option I haven't seen yet):
It has to be one of the 8 lights at the bottom, since those are the only ones that don't have bulbs wired into the circuit board. Either that or an early ABS system?

You can try asking in the "Professional Garage" section at http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:56 AM   #6
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

Thank you Phil for both of your follow-ups!

I am still puzzled by it, but really glad it's not blinking and/or staying on! I did make a post over at school bus fleet as you suggested. http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/top ... C_ID=20906

I'll post the results here to, once I get it figured out.

Thank you!
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:25 AM   #7
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Re: Instrument Cluster - Light Identification - Help

I think the folks over at the other forum have it figured out.


WillWho noted "Could be that they are different, but I looked anyway. I only have two lights in top holes of the right side white plastic thing. There are two wires to each light, all but one of the wires is gray, the other wire is white. The Fuel Filter light has two gray wires, one labeled 19B and the other 19K. The Water in Fuel light has one white wire labeled 19GA (at least it looks like a G) and the other wire is gray with 19L on it."

I believe he has them ID'd ....

There is more detail in their forum at school bus fleet. http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/top ... C_ID=20906
Thank you all!
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