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Old 10-04-2017, 04:45 PM   #21
Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
I'm not seeing where anyone said it was a bad deal.

It wasn't a good deal at 6999.99 though, as it, and similar can be had for less that $2000
My original thread asking about this (where people generally said "not a good deal") is here: http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/wo...eal-19423.html

(Note: The bus referenced in the next two links is not the exact same bus I referenced in my post, but it is from the same auction, in roughly the same condition, and it sold for nearly the same price - $1,897.50 w/BP.)

The original auction listing is here: Bottomline Auctions Inc.

The eBay listing for the exact same bus is here: 2003 Thomas Flat Nose Automatic Diesel School Bus - Great Condition!! Low Miles! | eBay

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Old 10-04-2017, 05:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
My original thread asking about this (where people generally said "not a good deal") is here: http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/wo...eal-19423.html

(Note: The bus referenced in the next two links is not the exact same bus I referenced in my post, but it is from the same auction, in roughly the same condition, and it sold for nearly the same price - $1,897.50 w/BP.)

The original auction listing is here: Bottomline Auctions Inc.

The eBay listing for the exact same bus is here: 2003 Thomas Flat Nose Automatic Diesel School Bus - Great Condition!! Low Miles! | eBay
I was just reading that listing. I think it appeared yesterday, and I immediately dismissed it.

I have no idea why folk would think it a bad deal at $1800.

Here is the thing. Buying a bus is little different to buying any other vehicle. The more information you have, the better able you are to decide what it is worth to you. That might not be the same as "fair market value", or what it is worth to anyone else.

For example, a rusty bus that checks every other box would be worth more to an experienced welder who can let in new metal at minimal cost. A bus with a faulty transmission is worth more to a guy who can repair it, than it is to me, who would have to pay a shop to repair it.

If you are at the actual auction, where you can crawl over the thing and make an informed decision, A.N. Other bus might command a premium from you, or you might walk away from a vehicle someone else will jump on.

It seems to me that buying at auction is not for the faint-hearted. If you find yourself bidding against someone who is prepared to "over-pay", by your estimation ... just let him have it. As long as you don't get caught up in a bidding war you have little to lose. Over-bidding is a seller's dream though.

We all want a "good, honest bus" that we are buying directly from the selling school district. Even then, the issues of temporary tagging, and the security of knowing that the bus will start and drive home are things that some buyers would pay a dealer to take care of.

MidWest Transit appear to have a few decent offerings. They are not auction prices, but they should be honest sales ... and nothing like the mark-up seen from that eBay seller.

Even the dealers should cut better deals when they are expecting new stock to arrive soon.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
My original thread asking about this (where people generally said "not a good deal") is here: http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/wo...eal-19423.html

(Note: The bus referenced in the next two links is not the exact same bus I referenced in my post, but it is from the same auction, in roughly the same condition, and it sold for nearly the same price - $1,897.50 w/BP.)

The original auction listing is here: Bottomline Auctions Inc.

The eBay listing for the exact same bus is here: 2003 Thomas Flat Nose Automatic Diesel School Bus - Great Condition!! Low Miles! | eBay
Not sure what you are after- Wholesale is cheaper than retail- usually. Auctions are cheaper than wholesale- usually. Sellers mark things up to make a profit.

You ought to check out jewelry markup.

I don't like to pay more than 10 cents/ dollar (new cost) at auction, prefer 5 cents/ dollar. I paid 3 cents/ dollar for my current bus. Best I ever did was .4 cents/dollar on large item on non-military. Military stuff .2 cents /dollar.

If you are doing a build, don't restrict your auction hunting to just the vehicle- auctions have generators, non-running vehicles good for pilfering parts, etc. Ambulance body for $200 yields some nice basement doors, diamond plate, stainless, etc for your build. An entire, running firetruck w/ 8v60 DD and alcoa wheels just went for $1500.

I'm putting a commercial- quality kitchen in my build, so I bought a truckload lot of culinary school stuff. It came with 2) 220v panini presses that cost $4k/ea- i don't want, so dump for $300/each . I just wanted the induction hob. selling other stuff will make my hob free w/ a bit of work. Truckload cost $250 at auction. Large lots are usually proportionally cheaper than single items as ppl don't want to deal with the hassle, favors dealers and simpler for seller.

YYMV
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
I was just reading that listing. I think it appeared yesterday, and I immediately dismissed it.

I have no idea why folk would think it a bad deal at $1800.

Here is the thing. Buying a bus is little different to buying any other vehicle. The more information you have, the better able you are to decide what it is worth to you. That might not be the same as "fair market value", or what it is worth to anyone else.

For example, a rusty bus that checks every other box would be worth more to an experienced welder who can let in new metal at minimal cost. A bus with a faulty transmission is worth more to a guy who can repair it, than it is to me, who would have to pay a shop to repair it.

If you are at the actual auction, where you can crawl over the thing and make an informed decision, A.N. Other bus might command a premium from you, or you might walk away from a vehicle someone else will jump on.

It seems to me that buying at auction is not for the faint-hearted. If you find yourself bidding against someone who is prepared to "over-pay", by your estimation ... just let him have it. As long as you don't get caught up in a bidding war you have little to lose. Over-bidding is a seller's dream though.

We all want a "good, honest bus" that we are buying directly from the selling school district. Even then, the issues of temporary tagging, and the security of knowing that the bus will start and drive home are things that some buyers would pay a dealer to take care of.

MidWest Transit appear to have a few decent offerings. They are not auction prices, but they should be honest sales ... and nothing like the mark-up seen from that eBay seller.

Even the dealers should cut better deals when they are expecting new stock to arrive soon.
Just because yo buy at a dealer doesn't mean you'll make it home without fixing stuff. Ask Chris.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
My original thread asking about this (where people generally said "not a good deal") is here: http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/wo...eal-19423.html

(Note: The bus referenced in the next two links is not the exact same bus I referenced in my post, but it is from the same auction, in roughly the same condition, and it sold for nearly the same price - $1,897.50 w/BP.)

The original auction listing is here: Bottomline Auctions Inc.

The eBay listing for the exact same bus is here: 2003 Thomas Flat Nose Automatic Diesel School Bus - Great Condition!! Low Miles! | eBay
Is that the rusty one?
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Just because yo buy at a dealer doesn't mean you'll make it home without fixing stuff. Ask Chris.
Yeah, there is that too
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:50 PM   #27
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Is that the rusty one?
They were all somewhat rusty... wouldn't say any one of them was more rusty than any other. Probably normal northeast Ohio rust - didn't look that bad to me, but I've learned (the hard way, of course) that rust is usually worse than it looks. (I bought a minivan that had almost no exterior rust. Door bottoms good, tailgate good, floorboards good, etc. Rockers were gone, but I've seen vehicles on the road that looked way worse. Checked underneath it as best I could, figured it was okay. Drove it for about 6,000 miles and then tried to sell it. First prospective buyer put it up on a lift - again, I learned my lesson the hard way about wasting my time driving my vehicle to some other location so that a mechanic can inspect it - and they pointed out a whole bunch of places where suspension components were rotted out. Needless to say, for my time investment, I earned the buyer walking away. That ain't happening again - you want to have a mechanic inspect it, you pay for him to come to my location and inspect it.)

The bus that was marked up to $7,000 had a 5.9 and an AT545. The one I asked about in my previous thread had a 5.9 and an AD2000. All of the buses in that auction went for under $2,000 total except for the 2008 mid-size, which went for $2,645.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
They were all somewhat rusty... wouldn't say any one of them was more rusty than any other. Probably normal northeast Ohio rust - didn't look that bad to me, but I've learned (the hard way, of course) that rust is usually worse than it looks. (I bought a minivan that had almost no exterior rust. Door bottoms good, tailgate good, floorboards good, etc. Rockers were gone, but I've seen vehicles on the road that looked way worse. Checked underneath it as best I could, figured it was okay. Drove it for about 6,000 miles and then tried to sell it. First prospective buyer put it up on a lift - again, I learned my lesson the hard way about wasting my time driving my vehicle to some other location so that a mechanic can inspect it - and they pointed out a whole bunch of places where suspension components were rotted out. Needless to say, for my time investment, I earned the buyer walking away. That ain't happening again - you want to have a mechanic inspect it, you pay for him to come to my location and inspect it.)

The bus that was marked up to $7,000 had a 5.9 and an AT545. The one I asked about in my previous thread had a 5.9 and an AD2000. All of the buses in that auction went for under $2,000 total except for the 2008 mid-size, which went for $2,645.
To most of us, a rusty OH bus is next to worthless. Rust is the number one thing to avoid. I'm glad you didn't buy that rusty piece of crap.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:52 PM   #29
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To most of us, a rusty OH bus is next to worthless. Rust is the number one thing to avoid. I'm glad you didn't buy that rusty piece of crap.
The beauty of vehicles that rusted-out quickly is they have low miles on the drivetrain.

I am in actually the market for a rustbucket w/ a 5.9L 12v so can do a engine swap in a pickemup truck.

Gotta think outside the box.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:01 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
The beauty of vehicles that rusted-out quickly is they have low miles on the drivetrain.

I am in actually the market for a rustbucket w/ a 5.9L 12v so can do a engine swap in a pickemup truck.

Gotta think outside the box.
Personally.... I would love to pick up a rust bucket with an 8.3 & MD3060 and stuff the drive trane into a late '40s truck.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:10 PM   #31
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Personally.... I would love to pick up a rust bucket with an 8.3 & MD3060 and stuff the drive trane into a late '40s truck.
Funny you should mention.... will let you know in a few days.

It is such a beautiful thing to take-apart the donor vehicle while next to the transplant. You have every nut, bolt and washer. Going to the boneyard for *most* of the parts bites.

If you want the 8.3 w/ 5-speed HD Allison, check-out the m939 trucks- a2 series had the Cummins 6CTA. They used to be cheap- I got some for $2K w/ few thousand on the rebuild.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:53 PM   #32
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you wont likely find 8.3's with MD3060s in ohio.. theres not enough hills to warrant the expense to the schools to buy those.. there was a lot of older DT466s in this state.. all the schools went cheaper on their newer busses andhave the V8's (up until navistar stopped and they have cummins now)..

not all ohio busses are rust buckets.. alot depends on the routes the busses ran... if a bus was run on a rural or large city route its more likely to be a rust bucket.. if it was run as a mainly neighborhood bus it will have less - typically most neighborhoods dont get salted.. except the ones where city busses run.. but the suburban newer subdivsions like mine dont get touched.. so the bus gets washed off with sun-melted snow water as it goes through in the daytime.. at morning it runs super slow since its quite slick in the subdivisions..

you may find a thin layer of rustiness on the ribs.. easily air hosed and OSPHO and done.. water leaks in busses cause the severe stuff.. back windows that leak and have salt-water sprayed on them from salty freeways and then leaked down inside thats where you see the real damage.. freeway or rural busses where salt spray gets under the rub rails.. Real damage...

big inner city and burb areas.. many busses never see a freeway or highway..
-Christopher
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
The beauty of vehicles that rusted-out quickly is they have low miles on the drivetrain.

I am in actually the market for a rustbucket w/ a 5.9L 12v so can do a engine swap in a pickemup truck.

Gotta think outside the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Personally.... I would love to pick up a rust bucket with an 8.3 & MD3060 and stuff the drive trane into a late '40s truck.
I guess we all think similarly... I've been waiting to find a cheap runner with a 466 and anything other than a 545 for my shorty.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:35 PM   #34
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I guess we all think similarly... I've been waiting to find a cheap runner with a 466 and anything other than a 545 for my shorty.
key is finding it close to home- Florida has tons of buses that were cannibalized for parts. It seems like Fla. buying budget is flush with cash, maintenance - zero. It's be worth it just for the tires at some of the prices for non-runners.


You need to have a relationship with a towing company or they will eat you alive.

Our district leases all their buses from Midwest in Kankakee.

ECCB- BrewerBob is right- you oughta be flipping buses with your knowledge.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:42 PM   #35
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key is finding it close to home- Florida has tons of buses that were cannibalized for parts. It seems like Fla. buying budget is flush with cash, maintenance - zero. It's be worth it just for the tires at some of the prices for non-runners.


You need to have a relationship with a towing company or they will eat you alive.

Our district leases all their buses from Midwest in Kankakee.

ECCB- BrewerBob is right- you oughta be flipping buses with your knowledge.
lol sheeeat we all should be!
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:00 PM   #36
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thoughts on schools and maintenance.. lets say the policy is 10 years for a bus.. chancesare a commercial Bus issolid enough to run for 10 years with little maintenance on it other than oil changes here and there.. heck if they dont wear them out they wont ever have to buy tires.. at least not drives.. maybe 1 set of steers..

transmission? yeah it may be recommended to change the fluid.. but at the less than 150k miles it will see and the newer allison? it likely wont break ..

so the fleet manager is a hero that his maint budget is low.. those busses arent gonna bring much less at auction than well maintained units.. esp from florida.. its the florida "mystique" and "myth" that vehicles are perfect that come from there.. exporters dont care they buy busses and repair them as needed or recycle them for parts.. theyll pay somewhat top dollar in florida just because they dont have to fly all the way up to kentucky or tennesee or colorado and drive them to the boat in florida..

some states like tennesee mandate 17 years.. so they must maintain the busses so they dont have breakdowns...

-Christopher
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:10 PM   #37
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so the fleet manager is a hero that his maint budget is low..

-Christopher
Interesting you mention that. I stop-in any busbarn I see and start talking with the staff. I'm shocked how little they know, mechanicals-wise. I think you are correct- oil and filter, batteries & tires when needed is all they do.

My brother-in-law just retired from the Chicago Transit Authority with a pension, so few decades. I wanted to pick his brain about ZF transmissions (they use). He said he replaced one- once. Didn't remember much. He knew less about buses than I do- which is about enough to get me in trouble !

I've learned more here than anywhere about the underbellies of the beasts.

CTA has 1,888 buses that operate 130 routes and 1,301 route miles. Buses make about 18,843 trips a day and serve 10,813 bus stops. On the rapid transit system, CTA's 1,492 rail cars operate eight routes and 224.1 miles of track. CTA trains make about 2,276 trips each day and serve 145 stations.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:35 PM   #38
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If you put school bus use in perspective , they are barely used.. a navistar 3800 with a cab and box is a 4700 truck. A box truck is gonna run 10 hr days at least and likely 6 or 7 days.. 70-80k miles a year is not uncommon.. and they get many years out of one.

My red bus was 16 years old with 8000 hours.. let's say it ran 250 days a year.. that's an average of 2 hours per day... anything half assed will run that long..

We as consumers buying busses freak out at 250k mikes on a bus.. alas most our cars won't last that long...

A 200k bus from a district that maintains them will last as long as most here will need
Christopher
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