less than favorable roads

[lordsporkton]

Im trying to better understand where a bus can go, both a rear engine(forward control?) and a front engine.

Im hoping to use this for a toy hauler and camper when taking out the dirt bikes. I dont intend to go wheeling in the bus but it will end up on dirt roads.
I notice the front engine bus's are always pretty high off the ground which would help. but how is traction on a dirt road, or in something like soft sand? Does it do OK with the 4 wheels in the back?

I'm comparing it to what a 4x4 f350 could do with a big 5th wheel for instance. a 4x4 super duty could tow a 5th wheel through things sand or a wash without too much difficulty for instance. you would be unlikely to get stuck(though its possible).

And then how would the chassis hold upto adding a drive axle in the front, i know that last bit is a lot of work, but it may be my only option.

thank you
Lawrence

[austin1989us]

I went up a pretty steep dirt road last weekend. It did alright. I'm not too sure how it'd work on sand/mud/anything a 2WD truck would get stuck in.

I forgot to mention:
-It's a front engine flat nosed bus.
-9 windows.
-26' long.
-It's somewhere in the 7-10 ton range, most of that on the front axle. (I've gotta get it weighed again).

[crazycal]

I have only owned one rear engine bus but many front engine buses. I think the front engine buses are better suited for dirt roads. Just make sure you have a solid transmission. I backed off the pavement once and thought I would need to have someone pull me back up onto the pavement. I am talking 6 inches.

[EastCoastCB]

For heavy duty dirt road use, I'd look for a shorter sized conventional dog nose bus.

[nat_ster]

Dog nose front engine.

Nothing rear engine.

Nat

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

Dog nose front engine.

Nothing rear engine.

Nat

[bubb, the real one]

The only way to know for sure if you can go the same place as a f350 truck is to find the surface area of the tires that actually touch the ground and divide it by the weight of the bus.

[CaptainInsaneo]

With a 2wd Tires will make a bigger difference where you can and cannot go than on a 4wd. So pony up the pesos to get the correct treads for where you want to take it.

[Hank's P-O-S]

Busses should not be driven on sand, too much weight on too narrow of tires. It would be like trying to drive through a couple feet of snow. They however to ok on grassland, even mushey wet land as long as you keep your speed faster than one might like, and eventually you will get very stuck!
When taking a vehicle like a bus off road, especially without a locker in the rear, you WILL get stuck eventually and you will realize just how heavy a bus is.



On gravel and dirt roads school busses do ok. The ride is very rough, but 60mph feels perfectly safe.
I would also recommend a manual transmision.

[wunderhut]

This is the last time I got stuck...
No help from locking duals...
A Cat D6 dozer came in handy though.

[Scooternj]

Solid dirt roads and gravel are fine, mud/clay forget about it. I've been on GSA buses on both (as pax and operator) in the military.

[EastCoastCB]

I've gotten my bus stuck in sugar sand twice. Sinks down into it immediately.

[ElizaHasAPlan]

My F250 is garbage in rain, snow, sand, loose dirt, and especially mud. My step father had to pull it out of the mud with his Subaru Legacy a few years ago :P Now, if it were a 4X4, I'd feel confident taking it anywhere.

I wouldn't even try taking a long bus up a dirt hill. I'd definitely do it with a short FE as long as it had enough weight in the back.

[EastCoastCB]

The "driveway" where I keep my bus is like a quarter mile long and slightly uphill. The middle is very sandy and I'm ok as long as I maintain forward motion and stay on the throttle a bit. But the neighbor's property has grass over sandy soil and I've gotten stuck a couple times over there.

I really wish I'd gone with a 30-35' dog nose for the kind of travel I plan to do, but the FE transit style I have is a decent compromise, and its always gotten out on its own so far... Knocking on wood.

[lordsporkton]

Thank you all for your input, it has given me a much better idea of what i can and cant do. It looks like 4x4 will be mandatory for a bus due to where I want to take it. I'm also considering super singles

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by lordsporkton

Thank you all for your input, it has given me a much better idea of what i can and cant do. It looks like 4x4 will be mandatory for a bus due to where I want to take it. I'm also considering super singles

My approach is to go with one of the larger E450 based buses such as this Collins:



Width and height are pretty much identical to a full size bus, and a six window like this one usually runs about 15'-6" from the back of the driver's seat to the back door. I'm planning on picking one of these up and swapping in a Dana 60 front axle/suspension/steering from a 2003 or so Super Duty. Both vehicles use the same transmission (5R110 automatic)-the tailhousing of the 2WD version unbolts and the transfer case goes on in it's place. I'll probably need to fabricate a crossmember for it.

As for putting the power to the ground, I also think Super Singles would definitely be the way to go:



These Michelin 325/85/16s are military take offs that will fit easy to find 16x9 8 lug wheels. They are 38" tall and will support over 5000lbs per tire-perfect for these types of buses as GVWR maxes out at 14,500lbs. The goal would be to not lift the bus at all, but rather tub the rear and move the front axle forward/trim the fenders to achieve clearance. With a selectable rear locker the bus would go pretty much anywhere a prudent person would take it. I am building a bus that will be used quite a bit for surf fishing and 4WD is mandatory for beach access.

[lordsporkton]

I was hoping for a bit more space than 15ft. I was hoping for more like 30 since im also using it as a toyhauler.

My need for 4x4 isnt that I'm doing anything super ccrazy, its more that i may need to go through things like sand or light mud or loose dirt. Most of the offroad places have reasonably flat places to put your trailer/rv but sometimes the make up of the dirt is rather loose or less than good traction. I would definitely be moving slowly through these areas.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by lordsporkton

I was hoping for a bit more space than 15ft. I was hoping for more like 30 since im also using it as a toyhauler.

My need for 4x4 isnt that I'm doing anything super ccrazy, its more that i may need to go through things like sand or light mud or loose dirt. Most of the offroad places have reasonably flat places to put your trailer/rv but sometimes the make up of the dirt is rather loose or less than good traction. I would definitely be moving slowly through these areas.

Gotcha-I missed that in the OP. I don't know what stock height of a fullsize bus wheel and tire combo is, but you could go super singles with these larger XMLs made for 5 ton trucks (rated for 9500lbs per tire):

395/85R20 46" Michelin XML tires

Aired down and locked you'd probably do fine. 46" is quite tall though.

[Albatross]

Definitely get a Front-Engine Skool Bus--they were actually designed to be able to go pick up kids that lived in remote areas, as compared to Rear-engine buses where hard-roads are practically necessary. I've taken my 24' Mini-Bird through some dirt-road areas in Missouri (the town was literally called Wilderness) where I might have hesitated driving my Ford Ranger; it handled well-enough as long as I kept the wheels spinning--and the previous owner put highway tires on it.

A longer bus would probably be a little bit trickier to keep weight on the rear wheels, but I would imagine proper tires should be able to do the trick.