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Old 06-28-2013, 05:42 PM   #1
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Lets talk AC again

What will a 12,000 BTU window unit do for me if its in the back window of the bus?

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Old 06-28-2013, 06:03 PM   #2
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
What will a 12,000 BTU window unit do for me if its in the back window of the bus?
well I would say you have a couple of things guaranteed...
If you power it up it will:
A. Make a lovely humming sound
B. Produce cold air.

I wish I could tell you how much and how well it will cool your bus but I am really lost on AC's and btu's. I have 2 AC's that I think are rated at 35000 btu each.... I can keep it quite comfy inside with full sun on bus. It does cool down fast. I have seen the RV roof units are usually around 12K, so it would seem this is a good size. Then you have the small window units 5-6K which fellow skoolie's are reporting differing levels of comfort and success with. I would like to see reports like:
Full sun@100f, inside 80f with 1 8k btu
partial shade@100f, inside 75f with 2 5k btu
Or something of that nature so that we can collect enough data to make better cooling decisions.

Looking at an online calculator it said 250sqft no insulation sunny room would need 14k btu. I don't know what temp they are figuring on though.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:20 PM   #3
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Well, that helped. No, wait....no, it didnt help. LOL!

Not interested in roof mounts period.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:06 PM   #4
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
Well, that helped. No, wait....no, it didnt help. LOL!

Not interested in roof mounts period.
Yes I wasn't attempting to be helpful answering your question as I am asking the same ones myself. I also wasn't advocating roof units...I have not read anything that makes me think they are worthy of the time, effort or expense. I was simply saying that they seem to be 12Kish which leads me to think that 12K would be a good number. As to the AC I have they are not roof mounts... they have inside air handlers and skirt mounted condensers, and I know very little about them even.
I am simply asking for info posted in a manner that we can examine for patterns and see if we could all come to a conclusion that works. Lorna posted in her thread that her 2 ac's manage 83-86 (i think) @ 109 outside with shade. This is info we can use, I know for a fact that anything over 74 is uncomfortable to me. In fact I prefer it at 68, but that would be cold by other people's standards . So for me to say 12K keeps me comfy means little to you. I am just hoping with this thread we can get some real numbers and info for you and the rest of us.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:24 PM   #5
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Re: Lets talk AC again

I knew you werent trying to be helpful. 68 is perfect for me. Anything over 75 and I hide in the house.

We need AC about 5 days a year so I am not wanting to get carried away, hence the idea of it in the back window. I just added the roof mount in there incase someone was to suggest them. I think the only way to get anything about ac is to do it yourself. So, thats what I am fixin to do. Can I borrow your credit card?
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
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Re: Lets talk AC again

5050btu will make the back 12 feet(sealed off) a meat locker with factory roof, black windows and the sidewalls I did.
this is 90* with 90% humidity plus last weekend 65* is what back room probably averaged(with infrared hand gun....why do people just have to see what temp female boobs are?)

the front unit still needs some work....hopefully this weekend

then I have another (or 2 window units) should be cold with lower amp pull than root units...we shall see

the humidity is kicking our azzzzz's
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:01 PM   #7
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
(with infrared hand gun....why do people just have to see what temp female boobs are?)
Well duh, keeping statistics is very important.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #8
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
(with infrared hand gun....why do people just have to see what temp female boobs are?)
Well duh, keeping statistics is very important.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:43 PM   #9
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
5050btu will make the back 12 feet(sealed off) a meat locker with factory roof, black windows and the sidewalls I did.
this is 90* with 90% humidity plus last weekend 65* is what back room probably averaged(with infrared hand gun....why do people just have to see what temp female boobs are?)

the front unit still needs some work....hopefully this weekend

then I have another (or 2 window units) should be cold with lower amp pull than root units...we shall see

the humidity is kicking our azzzzz's
Showoff! Rub your "cool" temps in why don't you! Thank God it's going to cool down to the 90's next week.

Good rule of thumb... AC units will drop your temps by 10F to 20Fdegrees. Sometimes as much as 23 degrees. But no matter how well you have insulated you bus, it's still poorly insulated. I figure you need to reduce the square footage the AC is supposed to cool by 25%-30%. Possibly more.

Altitude (I mean HIGH altitudes over 5K) lowers the ability for your AC to cool. But then it's usually pretty cool at those temps.

In a central NM valley...
Late afternoon gets pretty warm in our bus. Sun is shining in pretty good at that time. Otherwise with temps as high as 108F the interior is cooled down 23F degrees cooler. So that means it's holding at 85F with a temp swing of 5 degrees +/- between kick on/off (we do not have it blowing constantly). Today's high was 109F. Our bus is 40 ft. GE 5050 BTU in the rear, GE 6400 BTU in the front. When the rear unit dies (older unit) we will replace with another 6400 BTU (it has a remote control and a digital thermostat). In the mornings before it gets so sickeningly hot and in the evening when the sun has dropped below the trees (around 6:30), the units get it pretty cool. We've got another two months of this!

What helps: Avoid the direct sun. Shade is your friend. Glass magnifies the sun's rays so close your THERMAL curtains. Have a light coloured roof (we have Henry's SolarFlex roof coating on our roof to reflect the suns rays and to provide a thermal break between the exposed rivets on the exterior and the exterior heat/cold). Insulation with a radiant barrier. Break the thermal link. Every rivet/screw exposed to the exterior will pull the heat from outside into the next thermal conductor (like a metal frame), and it keeps going. Move to a part of the country where cooler temps prevail.

I would suggest that, like a generator, you buy as big a unit as you can afford and fit in the space you have. Based on measurement, I think the 8K BTU unit would have fit. But in our case we are trying to stay on a 30 amp hookup so we decided the 6400 BTU unit would supplement the 5050 BTU unit nicely. Our bus is split almost into equal halves. The part closest to the center (the bathroom where I do NOT want it freezing cold) stays fairly warm all the time as the rear AC unit really doesn't have the power to cool that much poorly insulated space. The front AC unit does cool all the way to the divider between the shower/bath area and the galley. All we have up right now is a fabric shower curtain to divide the front half from the back half. Amazing what that thin bit of material does. Eventually it will be replaced with an accordion door.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
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Re: Lets talk AC again

FYI:

We bought at the Roswell Sam's Club GE AEH06LQ It was $155.98
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:02 PM   #11
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Re: Lets talk AC again

This is my thinking: http://www.amazon.com/SPT-Window-Condit ... PDKIKX0DER
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #12
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Re: Lets talk AC again

I like Lorna's idea of two smaller units for each half of the bus. It will be hard for the one 12,000 btu to cool a long narrow bus. Unless you can duct it.

All my friends who own "real RV's" say one 12,000 btu will barely do it, you will need two 12,000 btu units. They all have 50 amp hookups. I want to stay at 30 amps also. I plan to move if it gets over 90, so 90 - 20 = 70 will be good enough for me.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:47 PM   #13
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Re: Lets talk AC again

I only have 110v and no plans on going 220. We dont need it much of for long. I guess I can only try it. Having one unit hanging out of the bus is as redneck as I want to look. Dont really like that but I have no other options. It generally gets to 30's - 40's here ever night during the summer.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:55 AM   #14
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Re: Lets talk AC again

I guess being in Texas (which is was close to 105 here yesterday) that 2 units seems it would be a must have? I am planning on 2 15k btu rv units on the roof. When I bought the bus is had one 13k but it looks ummmm old and worn out so it will be replaced and a second unit coming on line. I guess I am wondering how you guys survive going down the road with no generators to power theses? Granted my bus is still in the cocoon phase but there is no way in HELL that I would attempt to travel in my local with out AC's and generator?

One note to pass. AC's remove heat to a less objectionable area so they don't necessarily puke out cold. So insulating and closing out air infiltration is a must have to make them work efficiently as possible.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:57 PM   #15
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
... Having one unit hanging out of the bus is as redneck as I want to look. Dont really like that but I have no other options...
We have a Bluebird All American as well. We don't care for the A/C unit hanging out the window either. Neither of our two A/C units hang out anywhere. On the exterior, they are flush except for the wind deflector. On the interior, they will have cabinetry wrapped around them, making them appear built in flush. Besides,we had really nothing in the space we ended up installing the A/C units. Just needed the willingness to cut a couple holes in the front and resr of the bus.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:48 PM   #16
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Re: Lets talk AC again

I saw your pix and thought of that but I dont want anything on the inside either. And I didnt want to start whacking holes in the steel. Had I to do it from scratch I would have a ducted unit with everything in the bays. I'm not putting a lot of cosmetic effort into this bus. It just a "thing" and I could wrap it around a tree tomorrow and it would all be lost. I'm a functional gear head type of guy. If we make this post last long enough, we'll be into snow pretty soon and I wont end up doing a thing.
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Old 06-29-2013, 04:51 PM   #17
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
... If we make this post last long enough, we'll be into snow pretty soon and I wont end up doing a thing.
Then you'll be complaining about heating your bus! What you need to do is go to cooler places in the summer and warmer places in the winter. Unfortunately that does create a problem... over time, you become accustomed to a narrow range of temps and when it drops below your comfort level, you think you are freezing. When it goes over your comfort level, you think you are burning up. I know from experience. I spent most of my summers in the mountains of southwestern NC from 1965 - 1978. My winters were spent on the east coast of FL about 1-1/2 hours north of Miami.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:54 PM   #18
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Oh heck, we were out a weekend where it was -16 and we were hot inside.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:55 PM   #19
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
I guess I am wondering how you guys survive going down the road with no generators to power theses? Granted my bus is still in the cocoon phase but there is no way in HELL that I would attempt to travel in my local with out AC's and generator?
I'm scratching my head with exactly the same question. Most of the reports here seem to be stationary use sometimes with shade involved. That's a much easier proposition for air conditioning.

My only bus air conditioning experience was basically a failure. It was in a 35 ft Blue bird skoolie with 5.9L front engine. All glass except the windshield was tinted with a Solar Gard product; it is wonderful stuff and did a remarkable job of blocking heat in addition to tempering the visible light. For mock-up purposes I used some OSB sheeting and mounted one 6000 BTU air conditioner in a window near the front and another near the rear. Yes, it was dreadfully redneck, but I tried to console myself by saying that it's okay for an experiment to be kludgy so long as I promise to re-do it nicely if things work out. I intended to power them with a Honda EU2000 generator mounted on the trailer hitch at the tail. Testing at home in the driveway demonstrated that this genny could run both units, but road testing showed otherwise..

Our trip was late in July with outdoor temperature around 98 F. We caught the heat of full afternoon sun plus more heat from the front engine rising through the floor. My family were riding in a pair of booths formed by flipping the front bench on each side to face backward; the front A/C blew into this area. We didn't get far before finding that the genny wouldn't run both A/C units after all; maybe their power consumption or at least start-up current was higher because the day was hotter than it was in my pre-trip testing. Who knows. So we ran only the front. My wife reports that the temperature in the immediate area around that unit was tolerable but not quite pleasant. Just a few feet away in the driver's seat I couldn't figure out what she was talking about: I was melting! We drove eastward so at least I was in the shade of the roof but still it was unpleasant. In the end the EU2000 wouldn't reliably keep even the one unit running and we surrendered to opening most of the windows; sunset couldn't come soon enough!

Things I learned: the front engine contributed LOTS of heat to the bus. Even tinted, there was plenty of glass and abundant solar heat gain. The yellow walls and roof did their part to transmit heat too. That 6000 BTU A/C was no match for all that heat gain, and I suppose there was plenty of air exchange that didn't help things either.

What to do better? I've dumped that bus and found another with rear engine and white paint, and I plan to remove most of its windows and liberally apply insulation. Bus-kote or similar on the roof. All that will reduce the heat gain, but I still don't know what I'm going to do for the cooler. May have to partition the space so that a much smaller area is used while driving and cool just that. May have to get another EU2000 or some other larger generator. Might try some scheme where a compressor has dual clutches to be driven by the engine or an electric motor, or maybe independent compressors connected to engine and electric motor. Might put together some kind of evaporative cooler and hope for the best. We'll be doing some experiments this summer.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:13 AM   #20
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Re: Lets talk AC again

Great, continue on. You can be the test rabbit for now. Thank you. ;)
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