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Old 03-24-2005, 10:42 AM   #11
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Re: Larger Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainkf
I had considered that however I was concerned about how the mechanics of the rest of the engine would work. They are as follows:
-How would the propane conversion work? Would I need a new carburator or interface?
-Is the cooling system sufficient for a larger engine?
-Would the tranny bolt up?
-Can I use the same motor mounts?
-Would I need to replace any other components that make up the engine as a whole?
-How much power would I gain?
-How would this effect my fuel economy?
-If I go for the rebuild is it worth looking into some of the aftermarket components that are designed for "rotroding" such as camshafts, bored out pisons and different compression ratio's?

Thanks to any and all answers. -Richard
Propane carb & interface should work, though it may need to be adjusted (basic tune-up stuff).
Cooling SHOULD be enough...I've seen a 366 radiator cool a 335HP 502 in a box truck.
Since the 366, 427, & 454 are externally the same, the trans & motor mounts should bolt right up.
You MAY need a different flywheel/flexplate & harmonic damper for a 454...not sure.
A 427 would be worh an easy 50HP over a 366...a 454 75+HP increase.
Replacing a 366 with a 502 in a C-60 box truck actually INCREASED mileage ~1MPG, because the engine wasn't running WOT all the time anymore.
If you are keeping the engine propane-fueled, bump the compression (propane's octane rating is, IIRC, 106). DO NOT DO THIS IF THERE IS ANY CHANCE YOU WILL BURN GASOLINE IN THE BUS!
DEFINITELY get a better cam...call Crane or Comp Cams, tell them the vehicle details, & they'll tell you what you need.
Don't overbore more than ABSOLUTELY necessary....030" is good, .020" (if pistons are available) is better.

I would not even think about doing this without using:
Fortged pistons with chrome-moly or tool steel rings.
Stainless steel valves & hardened seats, intake & exhaust.
Maybe sodium-filled exhaust valves (not cheap)
ARP studs on the main bearings.
Double roller timing chain.
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:46 AM   #12
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Jarlaxle?

Could you please expain the last list? Why would you replace with those parts? How do you think this will affect the milage? Thanks. -Richard
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:12 AM   #13
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Re: Larger Engine?

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Originally Posted by Griff
Along with the extra power however, will be a suffering of fuel economy if this is done.
Thank you Jarlaxle, you are correct, I should have said "MAY be a suffering of fuel economy depending on the modifications".

Captainkf: Jarlaxle is on target on his list of recommendations. I know what he's talking about, but don't know how to put it in layman's terms like he will be able to. The bottom line is: these parts are more durable & will stand the heat better.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:14 PM   #14
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Thanks Griff. I contacted the engine shop this morning and talked with the head forman. He said don't do it. The 366 has more torque than those other engines. Beause of the shorter piston arms it is able to get more low end torque while being better on fuel than a larger displacement. Also it will cost less. The 366 is used in many moving vans, buses and other comercial vehicles where the low end torque is an asset while not needing the higher RPM's. Just thougth I'd put this out there as I had not read it anywhere else on this site. -Richard
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:40 PM   #15
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OK, so much for major bore & stroke, but Jarlaxle's list is still a first-rate suggestion on the parts & basic cylinder bore / honing!
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:17 PM   #16
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I have a 88 Chevy Wayne bus, it had a 366 with an auto tranny.
I have a steep hill to climb to get it in my backyard. With the 366 engine, it ran out of power and would stop at the top, not making it up.
I had to back down and get a run at it and jump the curb.
I replaced the 366 with a 454, and now it will spin the wheels going up, if need be. It has a WHOLE LOT more power and torque. It dropped in and bolted up fine. I can't tell any difference in gas mileage, it still drinks gas like there's no tomorrow. It now does 75+ MPH.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:48 AM   #17
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Re: Griff

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainkf
Thanks Griff. I contacted the engine shop this morning and talked with the head forman. He said don't do it. The 366 has more torque than those other engines. Beause of the shorter piston arms it is able to get more low end torque while being better on fuel than a larger displacement. Also it will cost less. The 366 is used in many moving vans, buses and other comercial vehicles where the low end torque is an asset while not needing the higher RPM's. Just thougth I'd put this out there as I had not read it anywhere else on this site. -Richard
Run away from this shop as fast as you can. The head foreman has absolutely no clue. The 366 has LESS torque than a 427 or 454 (very simply, displacement is torque), & may well burn MORE fuel than the larger, less-stressed engines.

The 366 is used for 3 reasons: it's cheaper when ordered in a new truck/bus than the 427/454, around town (school bus, delivery truck), it MAY use a bit less fuel, and it keps incompetent drivers from tearing up transmissions as quickly.

Finally, since it's an oddball engine (compared to the very popular 454 & 427), 366 parts may actually cost MORE than 454 parts.

OK, now about my part list:
Forged (not fortged--I can't type worth anything) pistons are more durable than typical rebuilder-special castings, & less liklely to come apart if the engine detonates under load. However, detonation will kill any gas engine in a hurry.

Stainless valves are durable, & this engine will see tremendous heat when lugging a 12-ton bus. Sodium-filled valves are hollow, & the sodium melts from engine heat, & "sloshes" back and forth as the valve moves, transferring heat away more quickly...that's what I run on my 460.

Studs give a more precise clamping force than bolts...ARP is a brand, & a very good one. I won't build an engine without main bearing studs.

For a double-roller timing chain, picture a motorcycle drive chain, & you have the general idea.
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:34 AM   #18
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I've heard very good things about the 454 powerplant in buses when it comes to power and performance.

I"m a diesel man myself, but if i was to go with a gasser, i'd want a 454.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:34 PM   #19
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Thanks for the feedback

hello Everyone. Well I apreciate your ideas and thoughts about my current situation. I priced out a number of different engine options and have decided to stick with the bus's current engine size. It does not seem feasible to spend twice as much on an engine for possible more power. I called a number of shops around town and a few mechanic friends I have and they all quoted high numbers to source another engine block and install. I look forward to an engine that works and will last! I am contacting the shop about the specific parts you mentioned and will be requesting them though. Thanks again. -Richard
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:20 PM   #20
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If you check junkyards yourself, you should be able to dig up a 454 without too much trouble. A good 60-70% of big (StepVan/ValuVan 30/35) delivery trucks had them.

Also, look in motorhomes, chassis-cab pickups, & MDT's.

As I said, reuild parts (pistons, etc) for the 454 are probably CHEAPER than for the 366.
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