Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-06-2016, 11:37 AM   #21
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,402
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison 545
Rated Cap: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwang_yi View Post
I'm not looking for general dimension to estimate the size of tanks, but for specifics.

I'm thinking of providing mounting bracket welded to the tanks and planning to use the existing holes in the frame, minimize welding to already weakened structure, or utilize any provision that manufacturers had already built into the structure. This is only a speculation because I have no idea what the physical and mechanical characteristic of the structures are like. I'd like to have the distance info between each holes as a minimum. Additionally, how much clearance do I have between rail and the floor, or what is the depth of rail, and in what general area of chassis can I utilize hot spot in the bus to minimize energy use for heating of water tanks and avoid propane lines and tank etc, and thousands more if you can help.

This is only for water tanks, and I have much more complex system for electricity and other personal requirement. Do you have a drawing?

I contacted bluebird, Thomas, Ford and few other companies I can think of for same request for information, no one has yet to contact me. I long for the day I request any technical doc, people will jump to get me what I wanted in no time.



the holes on the frame rail would be pretty specific to your bus.

the other measurement you requested are the same i gave you.
your tank is gonna be 14" by 28" by whatever the math works out to 100 gallons long.

the hottest spot is right over the engine so i suggest that location for your hot water.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:38 AM   #22
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderhut View Post
While this statement is true in the world of engineering and mass production,
this statement is generally false in the world of DIY and custom one off building.
Who's to say your mythology must be going back to ages of caves? We have tools needed for guess-free work, computers are cheap, software is free, why not utilize them?

I found one 38 gallon NEMA propane tank in Craigslist for a dirt-cheap price, went to manufacturer's website and fetch the drawing of the propane tanks, modeled into my computer, all I need is the chassis drawing to do fit check. I can just drag this model around the chassis of the bus, and decide exact place for installation, as well as all required nuts and bolt to exact specification like how manufactures do. If the same tank is no longer available, I can always model another tank found from Craigslist ads and store it in digital form, shouldn't take more than 1 hour of drafting time. It's not the most efficient way of making a system, but buying a tank for dime on a dollar is worth the effort.

Only difference is I can do much better in terms of safety and usability. See how simple it is?
kwang_yi is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:57 AM   #23
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
Its really simple when you dont need a computer to install a propane tank
__________________
Patina enthusiast and professional busman
www.bustoshow.org
Blog: www.lookatthatbus.com
Instragram: @lookatthatbus
charles_m is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:22 PM   #24
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711 View Post
We get what you're saying, just don't think it's a practical plan. I, for one, will be very impressed if you can pull it off.
This is nothing new to me, and it's rather odd to me that someone think it's a hard task. To me, this is only viable way to work, organized hence make the whole project transparent, and more importantly, estimate the overall cost up front with very little deviation.

When I'm done with this project, I'll share my files for the benefit of other users.

I was majored in EE/CS, and remember one professor saying, yeah we have quantum leaped forward making this fancy machine but wait till you see how people use them. People wasting and hurting themselves socializing in digital format. Healthy young people becoming narcissists, and hurting themselves. Am I becoming to presumptive to say I realize what he meant?
kwang_yi is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:33 PM   #25
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 6,170
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Personally, I have discovered so many "unlisted variables" that I only believe measurements and details I have taken & witnessed myself.
Tango is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:55 PM   #26
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles_m View Post
Its really simple when you dont need a computer to install a propane tank
when you have only one propane tanks to deal with, yes, you maybe right.

School bus conversion is much more complex, basically, you're attempting incorporate all the modern amenities into one single crappy 40 sq ft of living space. it becomes little more complex due to size restriction.

Ever try to make a simple furniture, table as an example, without having predefined drawings? Turning school bus into acceptable living space is much more complex, unless you want to make it like totally useless RV buses which is mostly comprised of mixed and misfitted part, leftover from home building industry of cheapest material possible, where people have something to do to keep them busy repairing, like a temporary bus stop to final destination, that is being buried under 6 feet.
kwang_yi is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 03:25 PM   #27
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
You can play with your computer models all you want and don't expect any help from any of the manufacturers because your a nobody in there mind because you don't own there product nor are you representing anyone that does? You need to purchase the frame or at least decide which one you are going to use before you specify anything for a fab shop to build and most DOT approved fuel tanks designed to go underbody will fit in the frames of a full size skoolie, maybe a shortie but not a 350/3500. You need to choose your structure before your equipment can't be designed. This is just my opinion??? If you have your specific vehicle ID #,serial #, or bus delivery info. Sheet to reference when you call the manufacturer then they are more willing to talk to you. I was fortunate my bus came from a school district and I was given the full 20-year records from the date of design,manufacture,delivery/acceptance, and monthly maitenance records for its life with the school district.
Every manufacter/design/bolt pattern is different and even THOMAS BODY WORKS has different patterns due to upgrades throughout the years and you cannot just ask for a a general layout without a year,model,make,type.
I have an 86 ford Wayne and at the time I looked at everything in the bus barn the only difference between the ford and chevy was the front end fiberglass for ford or chevy, they were all powered the same and the frame and Thomas coach work were the same and I have talked to THOMAS (very plesent people) but I had full ID # body designes and any number they asked for.
I didn't need frame dimensions and bolt hole locations because my structure was in my driveway and all I had to do was put a tape measure in my hand, measure what I needed then go create it myself?
At the time we started my wife was an architect and she drafted the layout we have now. And I am knowledgeable enough that after a few debates it all worked out in the end. There probably is no universal dimension for tanks that is created by computer overlay that will work for all types of busses. My plastic tanks were salvaged from an old Winnebago. Yes they are plastic and no we do not plan on drinking the water. BYOB sorry BYODW bring your drinking water seperate from your holding tank that should be chlorinated after sitting and before use regardless of use. If you plan on drinking the water out of your holding tank then filter the water going to the sink/toilet/shower? Or just the whatever tap/point you plan on extracting your drinking water? I have grinded and welded enough metals over the years I can smell the metals in the air and tell you what is being worked on without seeing it and I will happily drink water out of a plastic tank. It is not a garden hose taste and in most campsites you should be filtering anyway?
Sorry for such a long post
Kwang decide on your platform, purchase it , find the ID # and use a tape measure and then you will have all of your sketching/design questions in front of you.
Jolly Roger is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:20 PM   #28
Bus Crazy
 
Scooternj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
I second the "Don't build your plan before you own your bus" motif in this thread. I had a few rough designs sketched up in MS Visio that I posted on here, and adjusted before I got my bus. Once I got my bus, I went over it with a tape measure, pad and pencil and finalized my design.

I've also talked to the nearest International dealer near me (Wolfington Bus) with the body # and able to get all sorts of useful information out of the build sheet.

By the way, I've got about 200 sq feet of floor space in my RE to work with; not 40
__________________
Hey! That's not an RV, that's a school bus.
Well thank you for noticing, Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious on deviantArt
Scooternj is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:40 PM   #29
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Google sketch up and Google draw are not the same thing.

Google sketch up is a very detailed 3D CAD type system. I have a friend who does design work for UbiSoft and he will do a lot of his stuff in Sketch up before he does it in Maya.

If Google Sketch up doesn't work for you then maybe a good old fashioned pencil, ruler, and piece of paper would be the way to go.

As far as wanting things down to the mil, you're not going to find that. I work on buses for a living, they're put together by people, not robots and computers. A lot of times it's just someone with a tape measure and a drill installing stuff. An air tank might appear to be hanging in the exact same spot when you look at it, but if you go to measure, they're going to be a little different on each bus.
Ironwindow is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 05:07 PM   #30
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
You can play with your computer models all you want and don't expect any help from any of the manufacturers because your a nobody in there mind because you don't own there product nor are you representing anyone that does? You need to purchase the frame or at least decide which one you are going to use before you specify anything for a fab shop to build and most DOT approved fuel tanks designed to go underbody will fit in the frames of a full size skoolie, maybe a shortie but not a 350/3500. You need to choose your structure before your equipment can't be designed. This is just my opinion??? If you have your specific vehicle ID #,serial #, or bus delivery info. Sheet to reference when you call the manufacturer then they are more willing to talk to you. I was fortunate my bus came from a school district and I was given the full 20-year records from the date of design,manufacture,delivery/acceptance, and monthly maitenance records for its life with the school district.
Every manufacter/design/bolt pattern is different and even THOMAS BODY WORKS has different patterns due to upgrades throughout the years and you cannot just ask for a a general layout without a year,model,make,type.
I have an 86 ford Wayne and at the time I looked at everything in the bus barn the only difference between the ford and chevy was the front end fiberglass for ford or chevy, they were all powered the same and the frame and Thomas coach work were the same and I have talked to THOMAS (very plesent people) but I had full ID # body designes and any number they asked for.
I didn't need frame dimensions and bolt hole locations because my structure was in my driveway and all I had to do was put a tape measure in my hand, measure what I needed then go create it myself?
At the time we started my wife was an architect and she drafted the layout we have now. And I am knowledgeable enough that after a few debates it all worked out in the end. There probably is no universal dimension for tanks that is created by computer overlay that will work for all types of busses. My plastic tanks were salvaged from an old Winnebago. Yes they are plastic and no we do not plan on drinking the water. BYOB sorry BYODW bring your drinking water seperate from your holding tank that should be chlorinated after sitting and before use regardless of use. If you plan on drinking the water out of your holding tank then filter the water going to the sink/toilet/shower? Or just the whatever tap/point you plan on extracting your drinking water? I have grinded and welded enough metals over the years I can smell the metals in the air and tell you what is being worked on without seeing it and I will happily drink water out of a plastic tank. It is not a garden hose taste and in most campsites you should be filtering anyway?
Sorry for such a long post
Kwang decide on your platform, purchase it , find the ID # and use a tape measure and then you will have all of your sketching/design questions in front of you.
I do appreciate your response.

I do understand chassis design is specific to manufacturers. My idea was to plan it first on an arbitrary bus frame, acquire as much learning as possible of a bus, and definitely, floor layout to forecast/visualize what I can do to make bus conversion acceptable to my needs. If I like the overall concept, then rest is just academic. Shopping for a bus without specific plan is not my way of doing thing, but I’m beginning to realize my method has its limitations.

Speaking of water supply, I’m not making any drastic changes from typical RV setup other than different type of holding tank. I’ll have the standard filtration process using Lifesaver’s filtration system, meaning I won’t restrict myself to tapping onto city or park supply for drinking water. I have tested this jerry can, I can’t say enough good things about it. I hear some researcher at Cornell University has finally broke through in devising much viable/economical way of producing drinkable water using silver as a catalyst. We all know specific anti-microbial property of silver for thousands of years in human civilization, we just don’t know what the most optimal way of implementing it, until a woman researcher cracked the method. I just need to know how it can be applied for my need. Filtering is effective, safe and proven technology, but $100 for each filter that only last for 5000 gallon is not something I'm happy with, whereas silvers are cheap, much readily available, it consumes very little material, perhaps ounce of silver will last me a lifetime supply of disease free water.

I have briefly revealed what I’m doing in this bus conversion, and I hope you’ll understand my purpose.
kwang_yi is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.