New - 1st time bus purchase questions

[jazty]

Originally Posted by bansil

yes it hydraulic brakes (ford lucas girlinghttp://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/...TOPIC_ID=24455) and the lines are rusty...

I don't think International does Lucas-Girling brakes. From my understanding, that was a Ford thing. I have an International with hydraulic brakes and the system is similar to what you'd find in any passenger vehicle, just much bigger. I replaced a seized piston in one of the calipers and the whole assembly must have weighed 20 pounds.. I also did the brake lines, which are 1/4" inch. Parts are easy to find and maintenance has been easy thus far.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by bansil

when hydraulic brakes fail, you have no pedal no brakes

if you loose air pressure, your alarm sounds, you stop bus immediately before the brakes "lock down" just as if you set park brake

this is why 99.999999% of heavy commercial vehicles use these, just want you to be informed

Let's be a little more accurate here, folks... It is certainly true that air brakes are superior to hydraulic brakes in the event of brake system failure and many other ways. I buy that. However, hydraulic brakes don't just disappear if a line breaks. All that I've seen have been split systems. This means there are at least two brake lines. One line feeds two wheels, the other line feeds the other two wheels. If a line goes, you still have half braking force. The only way you could lose full braking force would be if the foot pedal broke, or something catastrophic happened to the master brake cylinder: two very likely events. Usually the problem lies in rusted out brake lines.

[NWade]

You all are wonderful!!
I personally feel more comfortable with hydraulic brakes - I understand the basics of them, their components etc. On the other hand - I do like to stop AND I will be traveling in mountainous areas!
I like this bus ... reasonable miles, well maintained, the guy brokering it is nice and seems helpful.
With that said I know how to use my transmission and get at least 50,000 miles from a set of pads (and shoes on the little car) living in the mountains.
Will the transmission work the same in the bus as in a regular vehicle in terms of being able to modulate speed when on steep grades??
The bus weighs around 14,000 pounds and while I have not added up all the things going into it to be a traveling home I am thinking the most weight is going to come from fuel and my fresh water. I suppose my stuff will weigh more than 55 elementary kids though - small kitchen area, bed, sofa for the dogs, probably a washer/dryer unit because I hate the laundromat, toilet and shower?
Also I have attached a few photos of the underside of the bus - does that look like too much rust?? And a leaky rear end?? anything to get overly concerned with??

[bansil]

Originally Posted by jazty

Let's be a little more accurate here, folks... It is certainly true that air brakes are superior to hydraulic brakes in the event of brake system failure and many other ways. I buy that. However, hydraulic brakes don't just disappear if a line breaks. All that I've seen have been split systems. This means there are at least two brake lines. One line feeds two wheels, the other line feeds the other two wheels. If a line goes, you still have half braking force. The only way you could lose full braking force would be if the foot pedal broke, or something catastrophic happened to the master brake cylinder: two very likely events. Usually the problem lies in rusted out brake lines.

You have never had a master cylinder fail and dump all fluid into cab on your feet, I see

[bansil]

for me it's too much rust, it's not the frame rust or floor, it's every bolt and fitting will be a PITA to work with

I will leave this one last debate on Hydraulic vs air brakes and leave it alone

when the buzzer sounds for air brake "failure" immediately get stopped while you have a 4 brakes working, then find out what is wrong

if you loose just front or back in a hydraulic system you automatically have 1/2 the brakes you thought you had, so after you "discover" you have no brake( or reduced) try to stop 20k+ on one axle, hopefully you will not over heat the, boil the fluid or worst case melt the seals in the calipers and either seize up a disc or just melt lining off

maintained...... both systems work great, I am just more comfortable with my big air brakes (I lost brakes towing race truck down 421 into North Wilksborro, I drive that mountain 3 or 4 times a year now in the bus


As for tranny holding back?

the 545 doesn't do a good job, altho if driven right it works okay, you will not see me west of the Mississippi river mountains with one tho'

read my little article about driving the 545 around our area, we go over the mnts at Boone a lot during the year


I pick my safe speed which is 25/30 and in first gear I stop...luckily it's only a 6 mile grade at average of 8* and I know it

[jazty]

Originally Posted by bansil

You have never had a master cylinder fail and dump all fluid into cab on your feet, I see

No, can't say I have.. I should also add that as an added safety Internationals have an incredibly irritating low-brake-fluid alarm that comes on if things start leaking. I had the pleasure of listening to that thing squeal as I was bleeding the brakes

[NWade]

Awesome feedback to my questions - MUCH appreciated!!!

[EastCoastCB]

I was REALLY glad to have these air brakes in the Tennessee mountains around chattanooga. For the Western mountains, I'd not consider hydraulic brakes for a second. Or for any extended mountain driving on the east side of the country.

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by jazty

. . . Let's be a little more accurate here, folks... It is certainly true that air brakes are superior to hydraulic brakes in the event of brake system failure and many other ways. I buy that. However, hydraulic brakes don't just disappear if a line breaks. All that I've seen have been split systems. This means there are at least two brake lines. One line feeds two wheels, the other line feeds the other two wheels. If a line goes, you still have half braking force. . . .

That has been true since 1967, but 1966 and before (except for dual-system pioneer Volvo) a bad hose at one corner equaled no brakes.

The family 1966 Plymouth Valiant lost its brakes 3 times. The first time was at a stop sign when I was in high school chauffeuring my widowed mother. I made a hard right over the curb onto the grass and pulled the umbrella handle. The second time I was away at college, and my mother backed down her driveway, rolled across the street, and took out the neighbor's fence posts. Her voice was still shaking that night when she called me and said I could have the car. The third time was just before I drove it in low gear to the junkyard circa 1974.

Since 1967, the Feds have mandated the Volvo system on all vehicles.

[boojiewoojie]

That's a lot of rust.... Remember, rust never sleeps! If you want it to last you've got a lot of work ahead of you... It may be structurally sound but it appears there is rust everywhere!

Any bus that has just come out of service is going to be "well maintained". The problem is you could compare two identical buses- same year, same equipment, similar mileage, etc. and maintained the same and they will still drive differently. I would be hard pressed to buy a bus sight unseen. Sure, you may luck out but odds are you'll be taken advantage of...

If you're looking for a conventional bus I would suggest shopping around some more. There are many buses available...

[EastCoastCB]

Yes when shopping, its crucial to not get "attached" till its in the yard.
I was really surprised- my 92 Ward came from Kentucky. 22 years old and virtually NO rust anywhere. The underside looks better than the local Fl buses at the school lot down the street. With all the rivets and seats to remove, I'm glad I don't have a ton of rust to deal with.
When shopping, I found lots of great running buses in Ohio but passed on all of them due to lots of rust.