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Old 10-29-2011, 09:50 PM   #11
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

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Originally Posted by revoltindevelopments
... Of course the permits for alcohol are a nuisance...
You mean you're supposed to get PERMITS for make Alcohol! Gee, no one I know that makes 'shine... er alcohol has any permits!
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:58 AM   #12
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

Just curious, maybe I don't get the "bug out" philospohy quite right or something .... if you have a 2000 mile range on fuel that you make yourself, what do you do when you get to the end of that 2000 mile rope - drop anchor, plant switchgrass and wait?
Or do you just go 1000 miles and then come home for fuel?

I could be a little more parochial than I thought, but I haven't seen an alcohol pump at a Texaco lately.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:41 AM   #13
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

Only alcohol experience I have is with friends alcohol race care. Last time I looked they use 4x times as much fuel as the gas counter part. So with that said you would have to really really pack that bus with tanks that are HUGE to make a 2000 mile trek? The gas storage would also be a killer to make that kind of mileage on a gas model also.

I applaude the efforts for using what you make but as said... I havent seen many alcohol pumps at stations?
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:33 PM   #14
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

I believe his design criteria is operation in a world with minimal petroleum, and as an escape pod.

He wants to do it his way, which after all, is the bus converters' motto.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:56 PM   #15
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

That's my point when recommending a diesel. The gas engine can use gasoline or alcohol but the diesel can use dino diesel, vegetable oils, used motor oil; even kerosene and jet fuel. You could grow a field of soybeans and fuel both humans and diesels. Same with corn, or sunflowers or a bunch of different plants that can be pressed for their oil. Many of those plants will yield alcohol too, but the oils have more energy potential and will take you farther on a tank.

The survivalist looks at civilization and asks "how do I survive when all this infrastructure breaks down?" My take on that is that there is a remote chance of that happening, but I'd be foolish not to at least understand the problems and take some basic precautions. At present I've got the guns and ammo part covered.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:11 AM   #16
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

The advantage of alcohol is the ability to make it from widely available feedstocks I don't have to grow, such as honeylocust pods or crabapples. This way as long as I have a still and a fermentation vat I can make more fuel. Feedstocks for veggie oil/biodiesel require access to cropland, seeds, fertilizer and a growing season as well as the pressing and processing equipment. That is doable here on the farm but unlikely to be workable on the move. On the other hand a diesel with 2000 miles range would mean I don't need the ability to make fuel on the move as pretty much anywhere we would try to go is well within that distance. And as long as fuel is available we can just buy more if we want to make longer trips. Ok, I think I'm convinced to go with the diesel. Or maybe pull the bus with oxen.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:26 PM   #17
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

There are advantages to both approaches. Being able to harvest fuel on the go would certainly be an advantage. The oxen may well be the best idea of all; cutting the whole fermentation thing out and converting the fuel on the move. You can't eat your bus and no matter how many busses you have, they'll never make any little busses for you.

Going a bit off topic here, but I read an article by a guy who reasoned that when the stuff hits the fan most everyone will flee the cities and run to the countryside 'cause that's where the food is. His position was that instead of being one of those fleeing, the best approach is to already be a resident of a small town where, presumably, you'll be one of "US" instead of one of "THEM" on doomsday. His advice was to buy a house well inside the town boundaries so you're not on the outer defense perimiter, and have enough land so you could plant crops in a non-obvious fashion (i.e. disguised as weeds). Running water or a well, of course would be a big plus and a free-fire zone around the house would be essential. The town should be just a bit more than a gas tank away from major cities to avoid the big invasion of those in desperate need of what you've so responsibly squirreled away for a rainy day. You would, of course, be armed to the teeth and be prepared to defend your supplies with deadly force.

If I can find the guy's name I'll post it here. He made some good points.

When the doomsday scenario finally does play out I imagine that the population of the earth will go from billions to millions in short order.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:56 PM   #18
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

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... His position was that instead of being one of those fleeing, the best approach is to already be a resident of a small town where, presumably, you'll be one of "US" instead of one of "THEM" on doomsday. His advice was to buy a house well inside the town boundaries so you're not on the outer defense perimeter, and have enough land so you could plant crops in a non-obvious fashion (i.e. disguised as weeds). Running water or a well, of course would be a big plus and a free-fire zone around the house would be essential...(

I'm lived most of my life in a farming community. I would suggest that staying put and investing in a sustainable farm would be better than trying to move around. Get a subscription to Mother Earth news and learn to farm and put food by. Earth sheltered house would be safe from fires.

Look up "Designing Sustainable Small Farms" (July /August 1984) or the series of articles tilted "The Owner Built Home and Homestead" (1972) for some info. I remember seeing an article where it showed how to buy and set up a sustainable farm but can't seem to locate it. It's someplace in an old issue.

On edit: found the article in Issue #2 - March /April 1970. It's from the Book "The Have-More Plan" by Ed & Carolyn Robinson (1943)
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:23 PM   #19
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

OK. The guy's name is Mel Tappan and the article is "Tappan on Survival." It was out of print when I'd first come across it but now it's available from Amazon and others.

It's good information that I hope I never need.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:31 PM   #20
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Re: Older bus requirements(bug out bus)

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Earth sheltered house would be safe from fires.
And gunfire. Way more energy efficient too. Good point Lorna.
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