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Old 10-17-2016, 08:19 AM   #1
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Professional paint, base clear? enamel?

im getting the new bus painted up, since i dont have a place or the knowledge to paint a complete bus i mustr use a professional paint shop to do the job...

now is where im all over the place..

the DEV is painted with acrylic enamel by the bus dealer it came from.. while I think that bus looks good, it has never shined much and the paint doesnt seem particularly durable... that bus dealer swears up and down its a mid grade product that has a great balance of cost and durability.. that guy swears that base coat clear coat ends up in failure on a bus and will haze and be terrible on large panels because he claims it can never be applied evenly and is unforgiving..


so I took the new bus to a company here in columbus ohio who specializes in painting Busses.. he paints big ones.. he is also a motorsports company so i have to say I had a ball in the shop yard.. (he has a 1977 wander lodge in there.. all original still... first time I ever got to see one in person)..
there was a couple skoolies in there too... some beautiful MCI';s... a Flxible..

[as a side note he was to meet with a couple in a skoolie last night who is going to continue to live in their bus while he paints it.. and he is cool with that...]

anyway he swears by base coat clear coat and says acrylic enamel is the bottom of the barrell economy you want it the cheapest kind of paint..

he paints coaches in a completely enclosed ventilated, filtered paint booth like one would expect an automotive painter to paint in..

I like the look of his work...


so i ask you guys what do you think works best for as pro paint job? again i dont have the ability to roll a whole bus with rustoleum..

acrylic enamel vs base-coat clear coat..

GO!!

-Christopher
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:17 AM   #2
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acrylic enamel is yesterday's technology with yesterday's quality. It can't hold a candle to a proper, modern BC/CC urethane.
The bus dealer in tampa was just doing a cheap, quick paint job. I think it looks nice for what it is, though. I'd consider doing my bus with the stuff just because its cheaper and quicker. But if I were paying someone to paint my bus, no way I'd pay em to use old single stage enamel.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:34 AM   #3
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Kinda depends on what you want and expect. If you are looking for showroom new, hyper glossy then you need to pay the big bucks and go with state-of-the-art materials. If you are looking for a reasonably inexpensive and easy to maintain paint job...go with something you can touch up with a rattle can.

I have seen enamel jobs that looked great after nearly twenty years and factory clear coat that was peeling off after two.

Whatever you do...do NOT use water based latex unless you are trying to create rust.
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:31 AM   #4
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Kinda depends on what you want and expect. If you are looking for showroom new, hyper glossy then you need to pay the big bucks and go with state-of-the-art materials. If you are looking for a reasonably inexpensive and easy to maintain paint job...go with something you can touch up with a rattle can.

I have seen enamel jobs that looked great after nearly twenty years and factory clear coat that was peeling off after two.

Whatever you do...do NOT use water based latex unless you are trying to create rust.

good call on the wester base... I remember someone telling me that before.. I'll ask what this guy uses..

im not sure im capable of rattle-can touching up any paint... if its painted with a gun the color is always different than that which comes out of a rattle can... so unless I want boring color like white or black or gray, etc im not gonna be able to rattle-can it and look halfway decent...

if I could paint the bus myself with rustoleum, etc i would have a good shot at being able to touch it up myself

im not necessarily looking for a showroom shine.. (after all id have 30k in a paint job like that im sure... at least if i wanted show0car quality)...

but im looking for durability and a little sheen.. mainly just as its easier to clean..

like eastcoast says the DEV doesnt look bad.. the bus dealer did a nice joib of masking and not over-spraying... they removed all the lights and such before painting so i think the prepwork was pretty decent on it.. just im not happy with the durability of the paint itself...


- Christopher
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:56 AM   #5
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FYI you can get single-stage automotive paint custom mixed in a rattle can. I think most auto paint suppliers will have the capability to package that. The one I bought wasn't horribly expensive; I think it was maybe $10 or so. Obviously that's going to cost a mint to paint anything large with paint at that price, but it's pretty reasonable for touch-ups.
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:28 PM   #6
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Like ECCB said, "acrylic enamel is yesterday's technology." and it will be more and more difficult to find as time goes on. BC/CC is by no means cutting edge technology as it has been around since the '70's in one form or another. It's greatest advantage is the ease with which it can be color sanded and buffed to a high luster. It's worst aspect is that the clear coat has a five to seven year life expectancy before the sun's UV breaks it down--repainting at that point is costly because the dead finish must be sanded, feathered and primed if the repaint is expected to last. Also, the BC/CC materials are quite expensive.

As an alternative, single stage catalyzed polyurethane with a hardener will provide a tough, shinny and long lasting finish for about one third the cost of the BC/CC material. Usually color sanding and buffing isn't necessary but it is possible.

While I used BC/CC on the yellow colored fenders on my little bus, I used PPG Delfleet Essential single stage polyurethane on the main body. Three years later both still look like new--go figger.

Etc., etc.:
steer clear of water borne material unless you can bake it dry.

Your paint job's longevity depends on the quality of your preparation.

Your repaint over someone else's paint job will be no better than his preparation provided for his paint job.

Go for it. If your paint job doesn't turn out perfect--so what. Its just an old school bus anyway and you will have learned something new! Jack
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ol trunt View Post
Like ECCB said, "acrylic enamel is yesterday's technology." and it will be more and more difficult to find as time goes on. BC/CC is by no means cutting edge technology as it has been around since the '70's in one form or another. It's greatest advantage is the ease with which it can be color sanded and buffed to a high luster. It's worst aspect is that the clear coat has a five to seven year life expectancy before the sun's UV breaks it down--repainting at that point is costly because the dead finish must be sanded, feathered and primed if the repaint is expected to last. Also, the BC/CC materials are quite expensive.

As an alternative, single stage catalyzed polyurethane with a hardener will provide a tough, shinny and long lasting finish for about one third the cost of the BC/CC material. Usually color sanding and buffing isn't necessary but it is possible.

While I used BC/CC on the yellow colored fenders on my little bus, I used PPG Delfleet Essential single stage polyurethane on the main body. Three years later both still look like new--go figger.

Etc., etc.:
steer clear of water borne material unless you can bake it dry.

Your paint job's longevity depends on the quality of your preparation.

Your repaint over someone else's paint job will be no better than his preparation provided for his paint job.

Go for it. If your paint job doesn't turn out perfect--so what. Its just an old school bus anyway and you will have learned something new! Jack

I love Jack's attitude... I tend to complicate things sometimes... so i have one bus of acrylic enamel.. lets have another bus of BC/CC for fun... I like it... and yeah they arent 100 point show cars... even if they were classics id be rest-o-modding to the point they wouldnt be anyway...

thank you Jack for clicking thjis in my mind.. this is exactly what I needed!!
ha!
-Christopher
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:22 PM   #8
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Consider that many buses have Ye Olde Peeling Clearcoat after some years in the Southern States should be a pretty good indication of what the factories use. No clear coat on a single-stage paint.

GM used a single-stage for many years in the 80's and 90's (they might still do, I haven't checked) - and when those paints failed (at a fairly high rate), primer was the first thing seen. And since the primer wasn't really UV stabilized, it would soon reveal the metal below. My Suburban was repainted by a previous owner with a BC/CC paint and the clear coat is peeling off the hood and roof. No idea how old the paint job is, but I'm not too keen on redoing it at this point.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:37 PM   #9
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I remember the 80s GM's... couple people I knew of got in on a lawsuit against GMC over it on their old 89 or 90 pickups I think they were... trucks were 2 years old and paint was coming off in sheets...

GMC ended up painting those trucks.. I dont know what happened afterwords.. they only kept those trucks a few years anyway... I remember they looked good after repaint but not knowng anything about paints, have no idea what they got repainted with..

I know most car companies are going to water based paints of some sort... friend who works for honda said all their paints are water based now... not sure how they deal with the rust issues.. these cars nowadays have thinner metal than ever before too..

-Christopher
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:52 PM   #10
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I remember my mother having a GM car around the time of the paint fiasco. It went to the paint shop at least 4 times under warranty ... originally the factory was determined to stick (pun intended) with the original type of paint ... finally the dealer had enough and went with a more "traditional", durable paint. We had the car 20 years afterward and the paint - though faded on the trunk - was still intact.

I had a '92 GMC truck which was originally white ... somewhere along the line it had seen a replacement bed and paint. As far as I know, the cab and front were original paint ...

I had a '95 Suburban which was white ... paint was in horrible condition and I wasn't sure about repainting it (it ended up being stolen so I never had to address the issue) ...

I currently have a '98 Suburban which was repainted at some point with BC/CC paint (I don't know when). The clear coat is just starting to peel on the hood and roof.

Fords were not immune to this problem. I remember in the early 90's Ford had some major paint issues too.

Today's water based paints - I'm sure engineers have figured out how to make these paints without causing the cars to rust - and corrosion treatments have come a long way since the 70's. The water based paints, I am sure are a lot more "environmentally friendly" than their solvent based counterparts and this is likely to keep the EPA appeased with ever stricter regulations.
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