Questions about Raising the Roof

Fifer · 02-06-2008, 07:51 PM

Hi All,

You guys have peaked our interest in raising our roof, but we have a few questions. We've been talking about either A. cutting above/below the window line or B.Cutting a hole in the roof and building a structure on top.

Do either of these methods hurt the structural integrity of the bus? Has anyone been in an accident with a modified bus? I realize that Carpenters have a tarnished name due to poor riveting, but is a bus from factory any safer (or less safer) than a altered one?

Does having a raised roof cause enough drag to lower mileage?

We found a really great site with some vintage bus and truck homes: http://www.housetrucks.com/

Thanks for your help!

Demonknight · 02-06-2008, 09:54 PM

structural..well if done as Millicent was I would say his is as strong if not stronger than before, and his is pretty much the way I plan on doing mine this year. Well I plan on less of a forehead look to mine.

mileage... again this would depend on just how you do it...I plan on curving mine backwards, sorta like a semi..that should keep it the same or better.

Elliot Naess · 02-07-2008, 02:27 AM

Somebody rang?

The only way I would consider your Plan B -- cutting a giant hole and adding a second structure -- would be if the second structure had a special value in itself. What I've been thinking about, to confess, is an airplane. If you could find an old airplane fuselage that is exactly as wide as the bus, slice it in half horizontally lengthwise, and set the upper half of the airplane onto the top of the bus, almost seamlessly, then you'd have something. But to slap a bunch of lumber, or a VW microbus, or some such, on top of a bus, seems... so... so...

Structurally, if you did this "airplane thing", you would be cutting away most of the roof bows, replacing that strength with whatever the airplane, and its fastening, might provide. Anything is doable with enough skill and iron, but odds are you would be driving around in a "cracked Carpenter", to some extent.

Conversely, with a plain roof-raising like on Millicent, the bows remain intact across the top, and can be spliced very well at window level.
On Millicent, I also added a couple of stout diagonals inside that tall forhead, to keep the roof from racking sideways in a roll-over. And there are fore-and-aft diagonals to keep the roof from racking rearward.

Obviously, fuel milage will be affected, but I doubt any of us have numbers. I read somewhere that a very large part of a vehicle's wind resistance comes from the underside -- the turbulence under the floor, among all the parts down there. That's why and AIR DAM ("snow plow") works so well, by keeping air from going under the bus. I'm pretty sure you would burn more fuel by increasing your speed from 55 to 60, than a two foot raise would -- just guessing, mind you.

I still feel that cutting thru the window pillars is best, since you can overlap the splices. In my humble monday-morning-quarterbacking opinion, the biggest fault with those Carpenters isn't the welding, but the fact that the roof is butt-attached to the window pillars, so it lacks the inherent integrity of the one-piece window-pillar-roof-hoop of other brands.

Now go find an airplane that is exactly 8' wide!

Roasting8 · 02-07-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Somebody rang?

The only way I would consider your Plan B -- cutting a giant hole and adding a second structure -- would be if the second structure had a special value in itself. What I've been thinking about, to confess, is an airplane. If you could find an old airplane fuselage that is exactly as wide as the bus, slice it in half horizontally lengthwise, and set the upper half of the airplane onto the top of the bus, almost seamlessly, then you'd have something. But to slap a bunch of lumber, or a VW microbus, or some such, on top of a bus, seems... so... so...

Structurally, if you did this "airplane thing", you would be cutting away most of the roof bows, replacing that strength with whatever the airplane, and its fastening, might provide. Anything is doable with enough skill and iron, but odds are you would be driving around in a "cracked Carpenter", to some extent.

Conversely, with a plain roof-raising like on Millicent, the bows remain intact across the top, and can be spliced very well at window level.
On Millicent, I also added a couple of stout diagonals inside that tall forhead, to keep the roof from racking sideways in a roll-over. And there are fore-and-aft diagonals to keep the roof from racking rearward.

Obviously, fuel milage will be affected, but I doubt any of us have numbers. I read somewhere that a very large part of a vehicle's wind resistance comes from the underside -- the turbulence under the floor, among all the parts down there. That's why and AIR DAM ("snow plow") works so well, by keeping air from going under the bus. I'm pretty sure you would burn more fuel by increasing your speed from 55 to 60, than a two foot raise would -- just guessing, mind you.

I still feel that cutting thru the window pillars is best, since you can overlap the splices. In my humble monday-morning-quarterbacking opinion, the biggest fault with those Carpenters isn't the welding, but the fact that the roof is butt-attached to the window pillars, so it lacks the inherent integrity of the one-piece window-pillar-roof-hoop of other brands.

Now go find an airplane that is exactly 8' wide!

Well Elliot, good luck in finding an airplane that is 8 foot wide, most are about half of that. Oh, unless you're planning on getting a Boeing 707 or an SR-71

. boy, can you imagine an SR-71 sitting on top of your bus?

Robert

Demonknight · 02-07-2008, 06:15 PM

don't tempt him

Elliot Naess · 02-09-2008, 12:25 PM

Lockheed SR-71 "Blackbird".
They let me photograph it, but I don't think they would let me take it home!

I'm thinking 707, DC-9, DC-3.... Actually wouldn't need to be exctly eight feet, since it could be sliced a bit above the middle to fit.

Yes, we enjoy playing with ideas -- and once in a while one of them pans out!

reprobate · 02-09-2008, 05:39 PM

You know, Elliot. My mother recently told me of a program she watched on tv where a woman bought the fuselage of a 747 and turned it into her home. And she paid.....drum roll please...for this fuselage..........more dum roll.....a whopping $1200! I'm going to google it. Maybe Elliot we can go in together and buy 2 for $800 a piece...what do ya think?

Elliot Naess · 02-09-2008, 07:03 PM

Thru the years, all sorts of things have been turned into homes, including airliners. Every time I drive thru Terrebonne, Oregon, I see the cockpit of an airliner sitting in some farmer's yard -- perhaps as a play house for his kids? There are junk yards full of them. Sometimes they come up on eBay. Once, on eBay, there was half a DC-9 mounted on a trailer, previously used for some sort of training. (You'd just need a Wide Load permit to move it on public roads.)
Just a matter of how much time and talent we have. Life is good.

timbuk · 02-09-2008, 07:17 PM

you guys are going to need a control tower to drive downtown in those babies roger roger

reprobate · 02-10-2008, 10:50 PM

I know you've got talent, Elliot. I'll try and supply the time! Your right. It's a wonderful world.

dentarthurdent · 02-11-2008, 02:14 AM

Speaking of aircraft conversions, this 727 limo conversion has been on ebay a couple of times and is apparently still for sale. All yours for only $270K...

Roasting8 · 02-11-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

I'm thinking 707, DC-9, DC-3.... Actually wouldn't need to be exctly eight feet, since it could be sliced a bit above the middle to fit.

Yes, we enjoy playing with ideas -- and once in a while one of them pans out!

Elliot, I think the 707 or DC-9 might be a little too wide you might have to settle for a Lear Jet, Embraer, or something that size.

Heyyy, if you could only get one of the display planes, that they usually have at Air Force bases (i.e. T-28, T-33, T-37, F-4, etc.)

Elliot Naess · 02-11-2008, 09:43 AM

One of these days, I'd like to stroll thru an aircraft salvage yard with a tape measure, yes.

Here's the philosophical angle:
Every morning, I step out of the house with my blunderbuss and aim it at the sky. Way up there are the big fat geese, out of range. Occasionally, a scrawny pigeon flutters into my sights, and "soup's on". Then, once in a long while, a big fat goose sees his reflection in my balding head and wonders if it might be a cute lonely goosette down there, so he swoops down for a closer look and... BLAM! ...a feast! If I weren't out there, aiming at the sky all day long, I'd be living my life on roots and leaves. So I keep aiming high.

Look... up in the sky... It's a scrawny pigeon, it's a fat goose, it's a... DeHaviland Twin Otter?

Roasting8 · 02-11-2008, 11:48 AM

Hey Elliot, a Twin Otter would offer you both a canopy and a meal (mmmmm, box lunches). Seriously, you might check some of the aircraft salvage yards, both in California and Arizona to find the aircraft of your dreams.

There is nothing wrong in looking up to the skies. It's the only thing that keeps us going sometimes. Heck, why else do we buy and fix up these buses.

Elliot Naess · 02-11-2008, 12:03 PM

Yes, Mojave, Tucson.... At the same time, I have this little yellow sticker note just below the screen on the computer in front of me, with bright red block letters, saying "NO MORE PROJECTS UNTIL I FINISH THE ONES I HAVE!"

Fifer, did we highjack your thread?

We can return to the topic if you'll just prompt us a little!

Roasting8 · 02-11-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Yes, Mojave, Tucson....

There's also an aircraft salvage yard in Marana, AZ, just north of Tucson.

and I'm also sorry about hijacking your thread.

Roasting8 · 02-11-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifer

Hi All,

You guys have peaked our interest in raising our roof, but we have a few questions. We've been talking about either A. cutting above/below the window line or B.Cutting a hole in the roof and building a structure on top.

Do either of these methods hurt the structural integrity of the bus? Has anyone been in an accident with a modified bus? I realize that Carpenters have a tarnished name due to poor riveting, but is a bus from factory any safer (or less safer) than a altered one?

Does having a raised roof cause enough drag to lower mileage?

We found a really great site with some vintage bus and truck homes: http://www.housetrucks.com/

Thanks for your help!

BTW Fifer, if you think that the site has some nice photos, you should check out the book. It's well worth the price.

Griff · 02-11-2008, 12:54 PM

Fifer's thread hijacked? Nay. . .SKYjacked!

Fifer · 02-11-2008, 03:10 PM

No hi-jack at will! This is really interesting.
Last week I was just looking for an airplane salvage yard, so it's kind of seredipitous that the thread went this way.
Do you know if there are any closer to the Northeast?
On the housetruck site, there is a bus that has an old airplane canopy as a sunroof, it is VERY nice, and if we could find one
I'd love to put one on our bus.

Roasting8 · 02-11-2008, 05:56 PM

I'm sorry, but the only salvage yards, that I know of, are in the western U.S.

I would recommend to check with the local FBO (Fixed Base Operator) or aircraft repair, at your local municipal airport. They are usually a friendly lot that could probably give you leads. Heck, they might even know of a wrecked or junked aircraft in the local area.

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