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Old 09-07-2019, 11:51 AM   #1
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Roof raise overbuilt

Hello so Iím looking to raise the roof and have been wondering from a engineering standpoint what the most sturdy oem design would be .

Colorado coach works has there hat channels they sell . Kind of plug n play.
I live in Houston and have contacted a few stew suppliers but have had no luck in getting any of them to be able to break 14g Iím the same dimensions hat channel as oem on my international bus....

I was thinking of lapping the hat from the inside or outside but that wouldnít be as flush for the panels to sit on..... or be riveted too.

So I started thinking even if ordered Coloradoís coachworks hat channel . My bus wasnít manufactured to have a roof raise . The ribs were probalay specifies and plotted out to be the height they are for a reason relevant to everything else and how the bus was made....
So what if I get the hat channel from them... extended my roof up about 20 in... then add square tubing I side of the hat for extra strength ....
and the square tubing will be not only run the length of the raise but hopefully about 4ft ... then drill holes in the hat and plug weld the square tubing to the inside the bus....
Is this just overkill?
Iím willing to do it as i like to overbuild ... and itís just another reason to not be paranoid .
Also ...
the bus is International ... i wanna stick with what i see as the outside skins being 16g but i also canít get a really decent point to slide my gauge on the skins ....
Iíve seen another guy on YouTube (off grid Skoolie )
Use 16 and no oil canning or anything so seems like a good deal.
Transcend existence Wess ha a little bit of oil can effect going on but Iím not sure what gauge he used .
Iíve also been watching his raises heís done in Washington and San Fran . Over and over again . I plan on doing that style ....

So any opinions about is this overkill?
Also what factory skin International used ?
What if my plates that I welded to my tubes for the all thread jacking method arenít perfectly square ??
And last but not least I need to understand and order solid rivets .... and my sheets . And vhb tape...

The suppliers around me arenít familiar with paint grip or paint lock and keep saying they have galvanized ....
I need some sizes of rivets others have used that might work out for me too.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:28 PM   #2
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Call up an HVAC duct installer. They often can bend very tight corners and radiuses in sheet stock of various thicknesses. That or look for a fabrication shop. I just had a buddy, who works for an hvac installer, bend for me, several lengths of hat channel to fill in the blanks left by the raise.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DawgBŁs View Post
Call up an HVAC duct installer. They often can bend very tight corners and radiuses in sheet stock of various thicknesses. That or look for a fabrication shop. I just had a buddy, who works for an hvac installer, bend for me, several lengths of hat channel to fill in the blanks left by the raise.
Yeah I’ll look into it man !
I work for a company who usually does pre fabricated metal building repairs or installs. We have a big manual box pan break but I was only able to get a piece 16g broke.
Our main fabricator was saying it can’t handle 14 and if so probably wouldn’t be to exact
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:20 PM   #4
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You have a helper installing solid rivets?
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:11 PM   #5
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You have a helper installing solid rivets?
I have a few people who will reluctantly help
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusT View Post
Hello so Iím looking to raise the roof and have been wondering from a engineering standpoint what the most sturdy oem design would be .

Colorado coach works has there hat channels they sell . Kind of plug n play.
I live in Houston and have contacted a few stew suppliers but have had no luck in getting any of them to be able to break 14g Iím the same dimensions hat channel as oem on my international bus....

I was thinking of lapping the hat from the inside or outside but that wouldnít be as flush for the panels to sit on..... or be riveted too.

So I started thinking even if ordered Coloradoís coachworks hat channel . My bus wasnít manufactured to have a roof raise . The ribs were probalay specifies and plotted out to be the height they are for a reason relevant to everything else and how the bus was made....
So what if I get the hat channel from them... extended my roof up about 20 in... then add square tubing I side of the hat for extra strength ....
and the square tubing will be not only run the length of the raise but hopefully about 4ft ... then drill holes in the hat and plug weld the square tubing to the inside the bus....
Is this just overkill?
Iím willing to do it as i like to overbuild ... and itís just another reason to not be paranoid .
Also ...
the bus is International ... i wanna stick with what i see as the outside skins being 16g but i also canít get a really decent point to slide my gauge on the skins ....
Iíve seen another guy on YouTube (off grid Skoolie )
Use 16 and no oil canning or anything so seems like a good deal.
Transcend existence Wess ha a little bit of oil can effect going on but Iím not sure what gauge he used .
Iíve also been watching his raises heís done in Washington and San Fran . Over and over again . I plan on doing that style ....

So any opinions about is this overkill?
Also what factory skin International used ?
What if my plates that I welded to my tubes for the all thread jacking method arenít perfectly square ??
And last but not least I need to understand and order solid rivets .... and my sheets . And vhb tape...

The suppliers around me arenít familiar with paint grip or paint lock and keep saying they have galvanized ....
I need some sizes of rivets others have used that might work out for me too.

Running into similar issues with respect to hat channel. However, Crowns are a bit more tricky with the web part of the hat channel being narrower than the flange end. In addition, the web faces toward the outside of the bus rather than inside like Bluebirds and most others. I may have to do something similar and make my own.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusT View Post
Hello so Iím looking to raise the roof and have been wondering from a engineering standpoint what the most sturdy oem design would be .


So I started thinking even if ordered Coloradoís coachworks hat channel . My bus wasnít manufactured to have a roof raise . The ribs were probalay specifies and plotted out to be the height they are for a reason relevant to everything else and how the bus was made.
Many criteria went into the design of the ribs. The length determine by the height of the passengers. No need to use extra material in making it something that is not essential. This doesn't mean that lengthening the ribs will effect them negatively in any way. In some cases the lengthening could actually make it stornger. The only structural issue I see is that because they are longer, there is more leverage force against them in a roll over. Enough to cause them to fail? I highly doubt it.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GWRider View Post
Running into similar issues with respect to hat channel. However, Crowns are a bit more tricky with the web part of the hat channel being narrower than the flange end. In addition, the web faces toward the outside of the bus rather than inside like Bluebirds and most others. I may have to do something similar and make my own.
That sounds tricky!! The open web of my hat faces towards the panels too?
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:18 PM   #9
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Many criteria went into the design of the ribs. The length determine by the height of the passengers. No need to use extra material in making it something that is not essential. This doesn't mean that lengthening the ribs will effect them negatively in any way. In some cases the lengthening could actually make it stornger. The only structural issue I see is that because they are longer, there is more leverage force against them in a roll over. Enough to cause them to fail? I highly doubt it.
Yeah that’s why I was considering the square tubing ... in case of a roll over . But i guess if that happens there will be a ton of problems already...
I also would like to bolt down and add metal frames to most of the Inside wood workings .... the kitchen bar, the bathroom , bed all . Supported by metal frame bolting through the wall and possibly into frame rails or something along those lines . Similar to broccoli bus .

I’m thinking I’m going to give Colorado custom coachworks a call and send out my hat and have them do the work..

I also feel very tempted to start cutting and raising . I have by jacks all made up and would like to wait for my material to be here before raising but will see hahah
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:22 PM   #10
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Also what do yíall think. Transition from this half rib to windshield or the 1st rib behind the door . For the angle of the slope and transition . Itís mostly all appearance and maybe a little added headroom and aerodynamics
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #11
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That sounds tricky!! The open web of my hat faces towards the panels too?

Actually, I should have explained it better but the open part of the web faces inward not outward. Attached is an earlier photo before being raised.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:58 PM   #12
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Also what do yíall think. Transition from this half rib to windshield or the 1st rib behind the door . For the angle of the slope and transition . Itís mostly all appearance and maybe a little added headroom and aerodynamics
Probably the rib just above the steering wheel.
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:08 PM   #13
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Actually, I should have explained it better but the open part of the web faces inward not outward. Attached is an earlier photo before being raised.
That’s what I kinda thought you meant .. that’s pretty strange maybe crown knows something these other manufactures don’t ...
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:10 PM   #14
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Probably the rib just above the steering wheel.
Yes Iím kind of on the idea a steeper slope / transition from the windshield rib to the one above the steering will would look pretty cool.. just the framing around the door and window might Be a little tricky
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:03 AM   #15
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Look at the other roof raises, square tubing is the way to go. Plenty options from bolting and welding, screw n glue (proper screws and metal bonding agent) for the Sheet
I personally used heavy duty square tubing bolted and welded to bus, all window frames are built from tube welded . The sheets were glued n screwed with fusor metal glue (same stuff we glue cars together with).


I'm say this again look at the hundreds of others that have done it with success. I'm not saying they all did it correctly but plenty of big sharks swimming around.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:57 AM   #16
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Look at the other roof raises, square tubing is the way to go. Plenty options from bolting and welding, screw n glue (proper screws and metal bonding agent) for the Sheet
I personally used heavy duty square tubing bolted and welded to bus, all window frames are built from tube welded . The sheets were glued n screwed with fusor metal glue (same stuff we glue cars together with).


I'm say this again look at the hundreds of others that have done it with success. I'm not saying they all did it correctly but plenty of big sharks swimming around.
In an IC/AmTran/Ward there is no commercially available square tubing that's a snug fit. Way too much slop.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:14 AM   #17
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In an IC/AmTran/Ward there is no commercially available square tubing that's a snug fit. Way too much slop.

Yeah if I went with 1 1/4 I. Square tubing I would need to get some flat bar to shim the extra play and I don’t really want to have to do that.
Nothing wrong with those that have but Colorado custom coachworks makes hat channel to fit and that’s what I am going with. And ii don’t have to weld angle iron on to ever rib to be able to rivet.... just saves a little time welding and closer to factory....
It does come at a heavier price but will save weight and I think mock factory standards
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:53 AM   #18
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Yeah if I went with 1 1/4 I. Square tubing I would need to get some flat bar to shim the extra play and I donít really want to have to do that.
Nothing wrong with those that have but Colorado custom coachworks makes hat channel to fit and thatís what I am going with. And ii donít have to weld angle iron on to ever rib to be able to rivet.... just saves a little time welding and closer to factory....
It does come at a heavier price but will save weight and I think mock factory standards
They should just sell some 18ga custom angle to tack on to the sides of their C channel. The "hat" they sell isn't really needed.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DawgBŁs View Post
Call up an HVAC duct installer. They often can bend very tight corners and radiuses in sheet stock of various thicknesses. That or look for a fabrication shop. I just had a buddy, who works for an hvac installer, bend for me, several lengths of hat channel to fill in the blanks left by the raise.
any commercial sheet metal/ duct work shop that is worth a dang has a metal brake that can bend up to 10 guage metal.
i know that all the commercial brakes are rated and sold as to be able to do that and i have done that.
The shops you have talked to either
1 dont have commercial equipment
2 dont want to mess with making hat channel pieces cause it takes someone that can actually read a stick rule,get the punch marks exactly right on each end and alot of flipping and flopping of that single piece of metal in a brake and they will never get it exactly correct. but having to friction fit is good cause you know its there when you weld it.
3 find the manufacturer that has the computerized forming machine that can spit it out in a few minutes and the cost should be less than a fab shop cause they are automized and can make what you want at the push of a few computer buttons.
4 i have had access to sheetmetal brakes mostly manual and here recently automatic versions and with either one can they do anything but bend a piece of metal in the upwards direction then the metal has to be flipped to bend it in the opposite direction and so and so on.
very time consuming and even if you know a sheetmetal break you will never bend your own piece of hat channel perfect because the bends are to close for a metal brake.
i have tried many times and have never been factory formed perfect?
been close but always took the clamps you should use anyway? some sheet metal hand tongs to bend to than the brake did and a 2lb BFH to help the screw clamps time.
I weld/ install various types of piping in the commercial/industrial HVAC mainly on military bases and started learning sheetmetal brakes in 96.
for the OP forming your own can be done if your interested?
good luck
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Old 09-14-2019, 02:02 PM   #20
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you got it on my mind?
a residential HVAC shop works with 28 to 26 guage sheet metal a light commercial shop works with 26 to 20 guage a commercial shop works with 16-18 guage and a shop that does resteraunt kitchen exhaust works with 18 guage down to 1/8 inch plate.
just for info out of my head???
sorry
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