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Old 06-10-2019, 12:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Good ol' Carpenters: https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/artic...r-school-buses

Note that these were buses assembled (presumably) by professional welders working in factory conditions.
Professional only in the fact they get paid for what they do. Some of the welds in my bus were accomplished by less than talented welders.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:55 PM   #32
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I wonder how accurate their statement of "No 2 Bluebirds are the same" is? Surely a school buying a fleet of buses isn't going to get 20 buses that are all different.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:57 PM   #33
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How do you get from "I am also not anti-roof raise, I just don't think people should be expecting their raised buses to be as structurally strong as they were before the modification." to "timidness"?
What are you basing your theory on when you admit there is no data out there to back up your claim of a raise not being as structurally strong as before. It may in fact be stronger.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:27 PM   #34
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It wasn't anything personal toward anyone.
Its just that folks who haven't cut a bus apart tend to be very timid and worried about such endeavors. These discussions come up pretty regularly.
The structural integrity of a school bus is beyond overkill. They're protecting a unique cargo though. Since the kind of folks with kids tend to sue a whole lot they build the buses beyond what any other vehicle would be.

That said- half the roof raises I see make me cringe.
My thoughts exactly.

School buses are way over built because they have to be. I've yet to see a roof raise on a bus that I felt didn't compromise the original structure even slightly.

Is that an issue? Not necessarily. A lot of roof raises on here are vastly better then stick/staple/and glued rv's that run down the road every day without issue.

But with all that said, No roof raise will be stronger then the original. If the joint section you put in is stronger then the parent meterial, it will stress what's next to it. And any riveted skin on a bus is a part of the structure of the bus. You have to be a group of seasoned engineers with crash test experience to say anything for certain, and I'm just a dumb mechanic.

But what I do know, is that some buses had a high headroom option, so if you're a taller individual, buy one of them instead.

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I feel like that’s a pretty cynical way to look at it. The protection of children is one of the core values of our society and no law suit winnings will replace a lost life.

I seriously doubt parents are more litigious than anyone else.

Maybe that’s not what you were trying to imply, but it kind of struck a raw nerve.
Sorry that it struck you that way. You're 100% right that no money will replace a lost life, but I think he's right. I'd bet money that the number of ambulance chasers for a school bus crash is way higher then any other scenario. Why? Passionate parents who will spare no expense coupled with a school district that has cash. Even if they lose the case, they're still going to get paid. That's the cold reality of the society we live in.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:44 PM   #35
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After listening to the pros and cons and various positions regarding roof raises and their inherent safely or lack there of, I have decided the best coarse of action is to leave the roof alone and have my legs shorten instead.

Wonder if Costco jeans come in a 36 x 22 ?
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:30 PM   #36
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A central part of a school bus body's integrity is the ribs forming the walls and roof, bent from single pieces of homogenous hat channel material. A roof raise cuts these ribs in two places, and even the best-quality welding and bolting of the rib extenders will still concentrate stresses at those cuts (even if the welds and extenders are stronger than the channel material this will happen) making them prone to fail.

I am also not anti-roof raise, I just don't think people should be expecting their raised buses to be as structurally strong as they were before the modification. Just don't ride in the back of the damn things.

The only way they would be prone to failure is in a catastrophic situation the way you speak it would be failure prone just using the unit in everyday use I also disagree that any extending of the the hat channels would automatically weaken them, depending on the materials and the processes used the addition could easily be as strong or stronger and as functional or more functional as the original piece. Gene
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
A central part of a school bus body's integrity is the ribs forming the walls and roof, bent from single pieces of homogenous hat channel material. A roof raise cuts these ribs in two places, and even the best-quality welding and bolting of the rib extenders will still concentrate stresses at those cuts (even if the welds and extenders are stronger than the channel material this will happen) making them prone to fail.

I am also not anti-roof raise, I just don't think people should be expecting their raised buses to be as structurally strong as they were before the modification. Just don't ride in the back of the damn things.

I take it you would feel safer riding in a sticks and staples, $100,000 motorhome than a skoolie conversion that may or may not have the same structural protection of a school bus fresh off the assembly line? - IMO, a carefully done by an amateur roof raise would be a far safer MH to ride in than the above mention sticks and staples MH
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:48 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
I take it you would feel safer riding in a sticks and staples, $100,000 motorhome than a skoolie conversion that may or may not have the same structural protection of a school bus fresh off the assembly line? - IMO, a carefully done by an amateur roof raise would be a far safer MH to ride in than the above mention sticks and staples MH
People are putting a lot of words into my mouth on this thread. I never said a thing about motor homes or RVs - the issue at hand is the structural integrity of skoolie roof raises, and RV construction methods don't enter into that.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Gdog 5651 View Post
The only way they would be prone to failure is in a catastrophic situation the way you speak it would be failure prone just using the unit in everyday use I also disagree that any extending of the the hat channels would automatically weaken them, depending on the materials and the processes used the addition could easily be as strong or stronger and as functional or more functional as the original piece. Gene
I thought I was clear about this but I guess not. In the absence of an accident where the bus rolls over, pretty much any roof raise method will hold together (although I have seen a few that seem like they'll start to break apart after a couple hundred miles of driving). When I talk about "prone to fail" I mean prone to fail in the case of a rollover accident.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
People are putting a lot of words into my mouth on this thread. I never said a thing about motor homes or RVs - the issue at hand is the structural integrity of skoolie roof raises, and RV construction methods don't enter into that.


you have condemned roof raises in your comments - my point is that you are overstating the risk and even an amateur roof raise done with a bit of care is still safer than campers, trailers, and motorhomes marketed today - perhaps it is slightly less safe in a rollover than an unconverted school bus and perhaps not - but it's still very safe - I think taking the ceiling and wall skins off make a bigger difference to structural integrity than a roof raise
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