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Old 09-30-2016, 08:42 AM   #1
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Unhappy Rust Neutralizer or Converter

Hey Ya'll, Kyle up here in Vermont where busses are only found with rust.

I have been researching methods to deal with underbody, frame rail and bracket rust that is pretty damn thick behind the back wheels. I am reinstalling a heater and trailer hitch and think I should do this now...

Every producer of Neutralizer or Converter claims to be "the worlds best"... so my head is spinning.

Step 1. Get as much rust off as possible (this seems to be as universal as masturbation)

Step 2. Rinse (this seems to have as many votes as Trump)

Step 3. Apply my product < Now this is where I need help.

Step 4. Apply undercoating (wait was that included in step 3?)

Permatex Rust Treatement?
Loctite Rust Neutralizer?
VHT Rust Converter?
Rust Converter ULTRA?
"1" Step (The Rust Killer)?
CRC Rust Converter?

HELP! Thanks
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:04 AM   #2
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I'll add to the confusion...

There is also an industrial product by Quest Chemical called "Restore". It is a converter type product that I ran five years worth of tests on while looking for something to prevent further oxidation of rebar (which rusts like crazy). Not only did it work and hold up over time but as far as I can tell is still the only such product on the market that is rated as a final finish. All the others I have seen are only rated as a primer and MUST be coated with another product (paint, epoxy, whatever) to get any benefit. The Quest material contains a very tough polymer that rises to the surface and hardens to a final finish so you do it all in one pass.

I am using it all over my bus.
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:03 AM   #3
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I'm a boat captain, and on a steel boat in salt water rust is always a problem.

The #1 (by far) method to deal with rust is to remove it by sandblasting. Take the metal down to gray. If you do that, then treat and coat the metal, the area is stabilized and the rust will not come back unless the coating is damaged.

#2 method is to remove as much as possible by mechanical means (wire wheel, needle gun, scraping, etc) then treat with Phosphoric acid (Rust-Away or Muratic). Done correctly the acid can take the metal down to gray. Then rinse with water, treat with Corroseal or similar rust converter and paint.

#3 would be to omit the acid (because acid is dangerous and not everybody can be trusted with it). Mechanical removal down to "tight rust", then treat w/ rust killer and paint. The rust killer may or may not kill it all...and it may come back at some point. Diligence is key here

I would recommend this stuff for a coating
http://www.international-pc.com/pds/...ng-usa-ltr.pdf
A quick web search will dig up a supplier in your area.
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:54 AM   #4
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Ospho - OSPHO Rust Converter/Metal Primer | West Marine

You can get it at most home improvement stores including ACE hardware. Its cheap, does a great job and has detailed instructions.

I've used this product on an industrial level to acid etch/clean aluminum stock trailers after welding and before paint. Used to get it in 500 gallon tanks. Works like a charm.
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Old 09-30-2016, 12:11 PM   #5
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I have always used POR-15 as a final product... at least I always coated the underside floors of my classic cars with it and didnt do anything else.. it seemed to hold up well through rain and such... I havent used it on the Bus yet except for a few spots where I was working on things and its done well thus far
-Christopher
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Old 09-30-2016, 12:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tango View Post
I'll add to the confusion...

There is also an industrial product by Quest Chemical called "Restore". It is a converter type product that I ran five years worth of tests on while looking for something to prevent further oxidation of rebar (which rusts like crazy). Not only did it work and hold up over time but as far as I can tell is still the only such product on the market that is rated as a final finish. All the others I have seen are only rated as a primer and MUST be coated with another product (paint, epoxy, whatever) to get any benefit. The Quest material contains a very tough polymer that rises to the surface and hardens to a final finish so you do it all in one pass.

I am using it all over my bus.
Looked around but can't find where to buy this stuff OTC? Any leads?
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Old 09-30-2016, 12:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by slaughridge85 View Post
Ospho - OSPHO Rust Converter/Metal Primer | West Marine

You can get it at most home improvement stores including ACE hardware. Its cheap, does a great job and has detailed instructions.

I've used this product on an industrial level to acid etch/clean aluminum stock trailers after welding and before paint. Used to get it in 500 gallon tanks. Works like a charm.
Awesome... this is the type of lead I was looking for... a fraction of the price (assuming it does a decent job) of the small bottles. Then move onto one of the coatings ^ identified above.

Thanks!
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Old 09-30-2016, 01:06 PM   #8
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How much ospho have people been buying to successfully do their floors?
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Old 09-30-2016, 01:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylebetaclark View Post
Looked around but can't find where to buy this stuff OTC? Any leads?
Try this website:

IndustrialSafety.com - QuestVapco 641016 Restore Rust Converter, 1 qt, 12/Case
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:19 PM   #10
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OSPHO is very easy to use. I brushed it on our wrought iron fence after a steel wire scrub. The next day I painted it, and it still looks pretty darn good after 7 years of Texas weather.
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by slaughridge85 View Post
Ospho - OSPHO Rust Converter/Metal Primer | West Marine

You can get it at most home improvement stores including ACE hardware. Its cheap, does a great job and has detailed instructions.

I've used this product on an industrial level to acid etch/clean aluminum stock trailers after welding and before paint. Used to get it in 500 gallon tanks. Works like a charm.
THIS^^^
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kylebetaclark View Post
Awesome... this is the type of lead I was looking for... a fraction of the price (assuming it does a decent job) of the small bottles. Then move onto one of the coatings ^ identified above.

Thanks!
It does a great job. I get gallons jugs at Ace for $25.
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:38 PM   #13
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Anyone know of a Canadian Ospho distributor?
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:52 PM   #14
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Check with your local paint stores, or suppliers. I have found it in several places.

Good luck
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:02 PM   #15
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Thanks for the link, but I'm wondering, will 3 gallons really be necessary?
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:15 PM   #16
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How much ospho have people been buying to successfully do their floors?
I bought the gallon to prep the sides of my bus where I added bare sheet metal after the roof raise and window delete. I did both sides and the front and back of the exterior and I used maybe 1/3 of a gallon. It's almost a water like consistency, maybe just a touch thicker. Lasts forever and when I was using it on the stock trailers at an old job we just ran it through a power washer and sprayed down the trailers. BTW Ospho is just a brand name for "Phosphoric Acid" so you may have better luck trying to find that if Ospho isn't available in your area...
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:31 PM   #17
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is ospho better than POR-15?
or a different purpose?

-Christopher
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:42 PM   #18
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Ospho is a rust convertor. When the acid reacts with rust it forms iron phosphate, turning the metal black. You then REMOVE the Ospho residue and then paint over it with primer. The best procedure is to use a wire wheel or sandblast the rust down to bare metal and treat with Ospho, remove the residue (with soapy water) and then prime and paint.

POR-15 is a rust encapsulator. It does not convert the rust to anything. It simply encapsulates it in a REALLY hard paint shell so no oxygen can get to it, thus stopping further rust. POR-15 has a very specific application procedure and works best on rusty, but well-prepared metal. If the metal is too smooth the POR-15 will peel off like electrical tape. POR-15 is also not UV safe - it will turn milky and chalky from sunlight.

Which to use depends on what you are trying to do, how well you can prep the surface, how you can apply it. For rusty frame rails you can do either but it might be easier to use POR-15, though it will probably cost more. That stuff is expensive. They do have some new products that apply over POR-15 rust encapsulator, like chasis paints (to provide UV protection). If you topcoat it, you have to do it before it cures or else sand it, which is almost impossible.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:27 PM   #19
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I've always thought the POR-15 was way overpriced.
Been using Ospho since auto body school back in the mid 90's.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:33 PM   #20
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I have always used POR-15 underneath cars and in areas where i wasnt easily able to get a wire wheel but i could get a wire brush and a paint brush... sounds like what I have used it for is its purpose.. its good to know that its not meant for bare metal or for sunlight areas..

yes its expensive but it was always something i put on and then never covered up.. it wasnt meant to look pretty but was meant to stop further rusting..

all i typically did on the cars was a stiff wire brush after a 150 PSI air hose.. then painted it on... and I wore pretty uch a hazmat suit to apply it as ive been told if you get it on you then its there for good... i never took that chance..

I dont know how ospho is but sounds like i should try it where i need it on the carpenter bus in spots.. is it nasty if you get it on you or can it be removed with mineral spirits?
-Christopher
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