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05-05-2017, 08:03 PM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 7
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Girardin Minibus IV
Chassis: Ford E-450
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 22
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Sheep's wood insulation in a fiberglass bus... questions!
Hey y'all,
Finally ripped off the last of our ceiling panels and tore out the last of the insulation. Our bus body is FIBERGLASS so there was minimal rust (with the exception of a few metal bars which we repaired or replaced). Next steps!
I want to use sheep's wool for various reasons (non-toxic, sound deadening, sustainable) and will have a 1/4" plywood and cork flooring on top of that. My question is... do I need to include a vapor barrier? The metal ribs will be coated with flex seal/rubberized sealant.... fiberglass doesn't rust... wool will hold water but increase in R value... cork is mold and water resistant. Should there be a vapor barrier to protect the sheep's wool or does it not matter since fiberglass doesn't rust and cork is water/mold resistant.
PLEASE HELP!!!
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05-05-2017, 08:24 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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For longevity I'd skip the organics in the floor. You can't avoid spills and humidity.
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Robin
Nobody's Business
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05-05-2017, 09:47 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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ANY organic insulation you use is eventually going to get nasty and moldy.
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05-21-2017, 01:25 PM
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#4
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New Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3
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Have you found a wool insulation source SunnyLordh? I'm really interested in going this route as well. Would love to hear what
you've found / how it's going, if you're willing to share.
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05-21-2017, 01:45 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
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05-30-2017, 11:46 AM
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#6
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New Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396
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Sorry for the delay... Thank you soooooo much for all this ! Much appreciated.
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05-30-2017, 01:05 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396
There's a lot of information available. It doesn't make sense to me to use a breathable organic insulation when the purpose is to stop air flow. Am I looking at this wrong?
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So the condensation can dry without molding? I dunno. From having to work with fiberglass insulation I bet it's a hell of a lot better to work with than the standard batting stuff.
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05-30-2017, 02:12 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Agreed, most people would rather handle wool than to handle glass batts. I don't know much about wool, but it is organic. Organic materials break down over time. It must decompose over time since you never hear about antique sweaters.
It seems to be dust accumulation in combination with moisture that allows mold to grow in fiberous insulation. Is wool any different functionally? I'd expect to see the same problems with dust accumulation and possible mold growth over time. Can an organic material work better than glass batts? I'm certainly not impressed with the glass batts.
Buses are plagued with unavoidable moisture or humidity issues unless you live in the desert. Displacing the humid air and sealing off metal surfaces was the goal of my chosen insulating material.
I've certainly made a lot of mistakes while building this bus, but I'll be much better educated for the next bus.
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Robin
Nobody's Business
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05-30-2017, 02:41 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396
Agreed, most people would rather handle wool than to handle glass batts. I don't know much about wool, but it is organic. Organic materials break down over time. It must decompose over time since you never hear about antique sweaters.
It seems to be dust accumulation in combination with moisture that allows mold to grow in fiberous insulation. Is wool any different functionally? I'd expect to see the same problems with dust accumulation and possible mold growth over time. Can an organic material work better than glass batts? I'm certainly not impressed with the glass batts.
Buses are plagued with unavoidable moisture or humidity issues unless you live in the desert. Displacing the humid air and sealing off metal surfaces was the goal of my chosen insulating material.
I've certainly made a lot of mistakes while building this bus, but I'll be much better educated for the next bus.
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I only know about wool clothing and hiking gear. "Cotton kills" is the phrase. You get cotton wet and the temp drops and you are ROYALLY screwed. Wool keeps 60% of its insulation even when wet. The clothing is anti microbial treated so it takes a week for you to smell like wholesale as$ instead of 3 days. Since you aren't wearing this stuff they could go hogwild on the treating.
As for how long wool takes to break down, is it really an issue? You and I are going to be ready for the nursing home in 30 yrs. Maybe the 20 somethings on here need to build a bus that will last 50 yrs but are they even going to last that long without ripping the bus apart or starting over with a different bus?
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05-30-2017, 02:58 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Hey, this bus is my nursing home. I'd be shocked if I have another 30 years to go, but who knows?
Ok, now I'm going to make yarn from insulation for a nonmicrobial wool sweater. That's right after I learn to card wool and spin it into yarn. Then I just have to learn to knit. Easy peazy.
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Robin
Nobody's Business
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05-30-2017, 03:25 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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I'd go with fiberglass over wool, at least fiberglass isn't organic.
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05-30-2017, 03:47 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Thank you, my point exactly.
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Robin
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05-31-2017, 06:51 AM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396
Hey, this bus is my nursing home. I'd be shocked if I have another 30 years to go, but who knows?
Ok, now I'm going to make yarn from insulation for a nonmicrobial wool sweater. That's right after I learn to card wool and spin it into yarn. Then I just have to learn to knit. Easy peazy.
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Sounds like you're going to need closer to the 30. I'll stick with a loom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECCB
I'd go with fiberglass over wool, at least fiberglass isn't organic.
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You might but you don't strike me as the hippy dippy type. Some people like their water chemical free, range fee, gluten free, and vegan safe.
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05-31-2017, 09:14 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Make it 40 years and I'll knit you a sweater too. I'm going to make yours out of fiberglass.
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Robin
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05-31-2017, 10:48 AM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 3,227
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
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Its been scientifically proven that using lambs wool for insulation in a bus makes the horn go bleat bleat rather than beep beep.
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05-31-2017, 11:15 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ol trunt
Its been scientifically proven that using lambs wool for insulation in a bus makes the horn go bleat bleat rather than beep beep.
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That alone would sell the gf on it.
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05-31-2017, 12:03 PM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
Sounds like you're going to need closer to the 30. I'll stick with a loom.
You might but you don't strike me as the hippy dippy type. Some people like their water chemical free, range fee, gluten free, and vegan safe.
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I HAVE to eat gluten free that isn't a choice. My immune system goes crazy from wheat, barley or rye.
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05-31-2017, 12:05 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I HAVE to eat gluten free that isn't a choice. My immune system goes crazy from wheat, barley or rye.
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You can go ahead and ship me all the gluten water you can find then.
I hate all the stupid new labeling.
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05-31-2017, 12:10 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Gluten
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I HAVE to eat gluten free that isn't a choice. My immune system goes crazy from wheat, barley or rye.
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I hope that doesn't include beer.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
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05-31-2017, 12:13 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Have you ever seen the gluten free bacon? It's absurd what they are labeling as gluten free now. Things that never had any gluten in them in the first place.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
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