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Old 12-08-2017, 08:37 PM   #1
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Thomas Followed Me Home Today

What a 24 hours ...

I rented a car yesterday and drove the 480 miles from here to Kearney, NE, at 40 mpg. I didn't get that on the way home. On the other hand, I was being pushed by 8.3L of Cummins goodness, and a great deal of diesel.

Got a couple of hours sleep in the car before finally making it to the dealership by 8.45 am. They kinda just handed me the very small key, and said "Bye". To be fair, one very nice lady showed me a couple of things first, like where the steering wheel was, stuff like that.

So with much trepidation, I edged the beast out of the yard and pointed it South. Ten hours later, I was home. I have never driven a bus before and it was a bit of an eye-opener.

First the good stuff. It starts, it runs, I can barely hear the engine but it's an eighteen-year-old bus, so it has noises. Wind, rattles, very loud heaters, four of them and they all work. The outside is flawless and the inside is dirty, shabby and looks uncared for. Good job it's the inside that is slated for removal. A few windows don't stay fully closed, but they are all tinted. Windshield has a crack, but it too is tinted with a tinted-in sunstrip, so it will stay cracked for a while. The crack is fairly low so it doesn't interfere.

It has lots of switches and buttons, many of which do not seem to work. It has about a hundred switches just for the heaters, and they all work, when they want to. It has a bunch of gauges and some of them work. The single most important of which is the coolant temp. gauge. This one works. It warmed up to 195 and pretty much stayed there all day. It moves around a little, maybe between 190 and 200, but it's hard to tell as it seems to be random. However, I'm thinking that 195 is not so bad and the engine just ran.

The speedometer is amusing. It works occasionally. Fortunately I had already figured out the RPM for 50, 55 and 60 before it went on its first vacation. It would work, then it wouldn't, then it would. Sometimes, just for a laugh, it would jump all over the place. The odometer stops when the speedo stops, so who knows how long it has been broken and what the actual mileage on the engine is. The Hour meter works and it's showing 5000+ hours. If that's accurate then that is good.

The Transmission Temp. gauge doesn't work, but all the others do. There is a small discrepancy on the air meter between front and back, but there is plenty of air and I wasn't concerned. I'll check to see how long it holds pressure, but the complete comedy of errors in our yard just now as I tried to close the door, depleted the tanks.

Brakes work well, if a bit grabby if you stamp on the hard. I did look at the inner face of the wheel hub earlier, and the ring seems to suggest ABS. I haven't checked for a light when starting, I'll do that tomorrow.

It started, it stopped and it drove home ... It didn't steer so well. There is a vibration at around 40 mph which might be wheel balance, but there is also a "clunky" noise that suggests wear. It's not too vague going doen the road, but it can be improved. I never felt either unsafe or worried, merely noted that work needs to be done. All six tires are good with the exception of a small split very close to the tread on one of the fronts. It doesn't look too bad but caused me to be cautious. The whole ride home was between 55 and 60 mph, when not in tows.

I found the actual business of getting around corners and maneuvering pretty straightforward. That was a pleasant surprise as I have never sat in front of steer wheels before. The Air Ride seat of awful, but maybe that's because it isn't working properly. I'm sure it can be improved.

What else ... Yeah, the right rear indicator wasn't blinking. Fixed at a truck stop. The headlights are truly horrible. Why do I have better headlights on my 7 foot motorcycle than on my 40 foot bus? I know how to fix that.

ANyway, it's in the yard and I'll get pictures tomorrow. I haven't opened anything on the outside for fear of not being able to close it again. I did investigate the mystery hatch by the passenger door ... It has four air-bleed valves insode which will save the dirty business of getting underneath to drain the tanks ... bonus

If y'all have questions I'll try to answer them.

Oh, I meant to say.

I did run it up to 70 mph and it was still pulling when I backed of at 3100 rpm

2100 RPM is around 55 mph

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Old 12-08-2017, 09:31 PM   #2
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3100 rpm?
That sounds high. I don't know much about Cummins but to me that sounds like a lot of rpm's.

The rest all sounds like standard bus fare. Funky gauges and switches are par for the course as I'm sure you already knew.

Congrats on getting it home.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:34 PM   #3
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3100 rpm?
WHat engine does it have? That sounds high.

The rest all sounds like standard bus fare. Funky gauges and switches are par for the course as I'm sure you already knew.

Congrats on getting it home.
Cummins 6CTA (8.3L) 250 hp

Allison MD3060

DO not know the rear axle ratio yet.

Bus moves along easily anywhere between 2 and 3000 rpm. I was keeping it closer to 2500, which is about 55 mph. 2700 is 60 mph.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:42 PM   #4
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From what I understand the max rpm on one of those is around 2700.
But I've been wrong before!
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:48 PM   #5
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From what I understand the max rpm on one of those is around 2700.
But I've been wrong before!
It appears not to be governed to 2700.

It's definitely a bus specc'd for highway use. Coach seating, overhead storage, reading lights for every seat ...
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:59 PM   #6
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I thought it was high too.

Didn't get hot though, and ran well, so I don't know.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:04 PM   #7
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It appears not to be governed to 2700.

It's definitely a bus specc'd for highway use. Coach seating, overhead storage, reading lights for every seat ...
8.3 Cummins safe RPM limits - TheDieselGarage.com

8.3L Cummins Rev Out RPM?? - The Combine Forum

The internet says they don't like to rev higher than 2500 and that 2700 is max.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:04 PM   #8
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Congrats on a successful first trip and driving experience. It feels like driving a barn at first.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:10 PM   #9
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Congrats on a successful first trip and driving experience. It feels like driving a barn at first.
Pretty much.

I was very happy at between 55 and 65 mph. As that sits well with the recommended rev limit I can't see any reasons to be unhappy.

Unlocking 6th would, however, give those speeds at lower revs.

I guess it's also possible that the Rev Counter isn't wholly accurate
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:13 PM   #10
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Every bus I've had has always had some kind of issue. Let's call it personality. Gauges can easily fall under the category of personality. I don't know how to fix those but I enjoy hearing how you guys fix them. I'd better knock on wood.
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:14 AM   #11
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Glad you made the first pucker ride ! First few miles are white-knuckle, but after awhile you forget your driving a house around.

Congrats ! Now the real work begins....
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:06 AM   #12
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congrats on getting it home!!! your tach very well may be wrong.. if the gauge was ever changed it may be set up wrong and be reading incorrect RPM. I thought the valve float on a cummins 8.3 was at 2800-2900 which means youd never make 3100.. at least not without a lot of smoke and feeling like its missing.. unless its different than what ive been told.. nevertheless you should nbe able to calculate it.. assuming you are getting your shifts all the way to 5th gear... and if it truly is running at 55 MPH at 2500 RPM or so, then you are a good candidate for getting 6th unlocked and not exceeding thomas's 75 MPH max speed limit.. which would drop your RPMs down a bit more.

sounds like its a school bus!!.. clunks, rattles, loud fans, wind noise, and steering thats not as tight as a car.. its a bus and quite normal.. after you drive it a bit. you will learn to let it wander just a bit within the lane and not worry so much that you stay exact center between the lines.. it will get much easier to drive... first time I drove a bus (wow way back then).. I felt like I was playing "Operation" to not touch the sides of the lane lines.... after awhile I realized that the bus was going to generally go straight down the road unless it has something majorly worn out..

I thought my red one was pretty nice until I replaced the king pins, drag links, and adjusted the steering box.. wow.. huge difference.. so you can always jack the front end and see if any steering components are loose and need attention and replace them as you go..
-Christopher
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
congrats on getting it home!!! your tach very well may be wrong.. if the gauge was ever changed it may be set up wrong and be reading incorrect RPM. I thought the valve float on a cummins 8.3 was at 2800-2900 which means youd never make 3100.. at least not without a lot of smoke and feeling like its missing.. unless its different than what ive been told.. nevertheless you should nbe able to calculate it.. assuming you are getting your shifts all the way to 5th gear... and if it truly is running at 55 MPH at 2500 RPM or so, then you are a good candidate for getting 6th unlocked and not exceeding thomas's 75 MPH max speed limit.. which would drop your RPMs down a bit more.

sounds like its a school bus!!.. clunks, rattles, loud fans, wind noise, and steering thats not as tight as a car.. its a bus and quite normal.. after you drive it a bit. you will learn to let it wander just a bit within the lane and not worry so much that you stay exact center between the lines.. it will get much easier to drive... first time I drove a bus (wow way back then).. I felt like I was playing "Operation" to not touch the sides of the lane lines.... after awhile I realized that the bus was going to generally go straight down the road unless it has something majorly worn out..

I thought my red one was pretty nice until I replaced the king pins, drag links, and adjusted the steering box.. wow.. huge difference.. so you can always jack the front end and see if any steering components are loose and need attention and replace them as you go..
-Christopher
I was pretty confident in the bus by the time I had driven it 500 miles home, through mixed driving. I just took my time, went slow where I needed to, and let others worry about their progress.

The steering does have an issue, but I'm not bothered about the slight tendency to wander about a bit. It's actually pretty good in that respect. The vibration could be wheel balance but I suspect it's something mechanical.

I found a great reference point to tell me where I am in my lane, and that works in the dark too. Basically, if the inside edge of my cross-view mirror appears to be either on the centerline of the road, or just over it, I am perfectly placed with about 1 foot on the right, and two feet on the left. Working that out gave me a lot of confidence. Narrow construction lanes put a few new creases in the seat though

The engine never felt like it was straining, even at 70 mph. At 60 mph it wanted to drift up a bit in speed. It's a "feel" thing, and I know you get it. I suspect the Tach. I'll get the rear axle ratio and work it out. SHifts are smooth and I've no reason to suspect that it isn't shifting up to 5th gear. I have the Up/Down buttons, so I guess I can test that. If I put it in 4th it should hold there until I allow it 5th, and I should feel the shift up. Also, with the gearing, I can work out the RPM in 4th for various speeds.

By the way, it's currently 30F outside and the bus just started up first touch of the key. A bit of clatter for 30 seconds and it settled down to a smooth tickover. I wanted to try a completely cold start. It passed. There are a few nice little touches about the place that suggest that someone took pride in their maintenance in the past.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:13 AM   #14
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Cummins 8.3 Power Specs:

School bus
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 260 horsepower (194 kW; 264 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 280 horsepower (209 kW; 284 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 285 horsepower (213 kW; 289 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 860 pound force-feet (1,166 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 300 horsepower (224 kW; 304 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
Urban bus
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 250 horsepower (186 kW; 253 PS) electronically governed at 2,200 rpm
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 260 horsepower (194 kW; 264 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 280 horsepower (209 kW; 284 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 285 horsepower (213 kW; 289 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 860 pound force-feet (1,166 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 300 horsepower (224 kW; 304 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,050 pound force-feet (1,424 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 310 horsepower (231 kW; 314 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
Firetruck/motorhome/truck
  • 1,050 pound force-feet (1,424 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 310 horsepower (231 kW; 314 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,150 pound force-feet (1,559 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 330 horsepower (246 kW; 335 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,200 pound force-feet (1,627 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 400 horsepower (298 kW; 406 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
NOTE:
For longevity and peak MPG's, any diesel is best kept in that engines "sweet spot" which is typically at or just above it peak torque RPM. All the above ratings show peak torque at 1300 RPM. Running consistently at much above that number will shorten the engines life and consume excess fuel.

That is precisely why you never hear 18 wheelers screaming on the highway. They are often going 70 but sound like they are at high idle for good reason.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Cummins 8.3 Power Specs:

School bus
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 260 horsepower (194 kW; 264 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 280 horsepower (209 kW; 284 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 285 horsepower (213 kW; 289 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 860 pound force-feet (1,166 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 300 horsepower (224 kW; 304 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
Urban bus
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 250 horsepower (186 kW; 253 PS) electronically governed at 2,200 rpm
  • 660 pound force-feet (895 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 260 horsepower (194 kW; 264 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 280 horsepower (209 kW; 284 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 800 pound force-feet (1,085 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 285 horsepower (213 kW; 289 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 860 pound force-feet (1,166 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 300 horsepower (224 kW; 304 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,050 pound force-feet (1,424 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 310 horsepower (231 kW; 314 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
Firetruck/motorhome/truck
  • 1,050 pound force-feet (1,424 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 310 horsepower (231 kW; 314 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,150 pound force-feet (1,559 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 330 horsepower (246 kW; 335 PS) electronically governed at 2,500 rpm
  • 1,200 pound force-feet (1,627 N·m) @ 1,300 rpm, 400 horsepower (298 kW; 406 PS) electronically governed at 2,400 rpm
NOTE:
For longevity and peak MPG's, any diesel is best kept in that engines "sweet spot" which is typically at or just above it peak torque RPM. All the above ratings show peak torque at 1300 RPM. Running consistently at much above that number will shorten the engines life and consume excess fuel.

That is precisely why you never hear 18 wheelers screaming on the highway. They are often going 70 but sound like they are at high idle for good reason.
interesting.. I had always heard you wanted to be in the middle somewhere.. if you load up and engine at peak torque then they call it lugging..

in my case with my red bus if I am running at 1550 RPM.. peak torque is 1400... I watch my computer'd engine load factor easily run up to 100% on ANY incline.. if I dump it to 5th gear. and it goes up to 1750-1800 then I have a lot less of that.. if I go down to 4th gear.. 2450 RPM at 65.. then it feels like the engine has all the power but is running-out..

I really love the sound and feel of it at 1550.. it just idles down the highway and never gets hot.... so Tango sounds like im in the right range? maybe just adjust the trans to downshift before I "load up" too much?

-Christopher
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
interesting.. I had always heard you wanted to be in the middle somewhere.. if you load up and engine at peak torque then they call it lugging..

in my case with my red bus if I am running at 1550 RPM.. peak torque is 1400... I watch my computer'd engine load factor easily run up to 100% on ANY incline.. if I dump it to 5th gear. and it goes up to 1750-1800 then I have a lot less of that.. if I go down to 4th gear.. 2450 RPM at 65.. then it feels like the engine has all the power but is running-out..

I really love the sound and feel of it at 1550.. it just idles down the highway and never gets hot.... so Tango sounds like im in the right range? maybe just adjust the trans to downshift before I "load up" too much?

-Christopher
I need to hook mine up to a J1939 scanner to find out what's going on.

Also, none of the idiot lights on the dash strip are working. I haven't investigated that yet.

I do know where the bus was operated and I've asked them if they have any info.
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:48 PM   #17
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One small thing on the way home.

I pulled into the Oklahoma Weigh Station as it was open.

I know I didn't have to, but the bus is still registered as a bus, and I didn't want a state trooper chasing me down to ask why I hadn't stopped.

The guy just said "Your fine" when he weighed the bus, and I was on my way.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:12 PM   #18
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Hey Christopher --- sounds like you are pretty much spot on. The "sweet spot" referred to is valid when on level ground at highway speed. Hit a hill and yes, gonna have to downshift to avoid lugging. The spot on my 4 banger is 1800 and that is what I geared and tired it for at 63-65. I am confident it will run higher but hoping to get max mpg's and service life by staying within the numbers.

Cannot comment on adjusting the trans but with your skill you can probably optimize it with precision. Me?...with an all mech engine and cable shifter, I'll just have to listen try to shift accordingly.

BTW...have you been monitoring your MPG's? How are they looking?
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:00 PM   #19
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Sounds like a solid bus just in need of a little T.L.C. Sounds like my first trip with HF from CA, just shorter than my trip.

She'll be an awesome bus for you!

M
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:21 PM   #20
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Glad you made it back with no issues.......I know it was a big relief to get home unscathed with mine. For 8 hours I kept thinking "Should have signed on with Good Sam before undertaking this folly."


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