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Old 06-25-2015, 07:02 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Tips for a future hopeful fulltimer?

Before I decide to just jump in the deep end, I want to get all my ducks in a row. Looking for any constructive criticism. A little background on us: We are a young, minimalist couple that has the desire to explore life before retirement. We do not need a lot, just a few basics, and we are willing to volunteer or work anywhere along the way for some extra cash or food. I don't mind living life in the slow lane, but I would prefer not to drive a huge rig, so the smallest bus I can get away with, the better.

Some ideas I was hoping to accomplish:
-totally redo all the insulation, floor, walls, and ceiling
-small fridge, chargers (computer, single cell phone), LED lights (maybe 8-12), and a small TV that will only run every so often, on a solar set up - this is probably where I am most lost.. I was thinking 200W of power, with a 1500W inverter, and 2-4 battery bank. Does this sound reasonable?
-Propane heat, and cook top
-Rain water collection with small (5-10 gallons), used only for kitchen sink and drinking water - possibly an overflow tank in case we get some real rainy weather.
-rooftop deck
-Outdoor cold shower using limited collection water (I figure using a heating system with a pump will just require more storage, resulting in more weight)

I think I can figure out the design, and consider what we want vs need. As I said, I am most lost in the solar electric set up. I have done research, but it is all so confusing to me. Here are some things that are up in the air for me, that I could use some experienced advice on:
-Propane cooking vs induction - If I add induction, will I need a lot more solar power?
-Propane heat vs electric - We plan on pretty much chasing the weather, so I don't see us using a lot of heat.
-Composting toilet vs camping toilet vs black water holding - I would like to do as little plumbing as possible to avoid any future headaches, and as I said, we are in no rush, so we don't mind stopping at rest stops whenever we need to (we have a dog, and will have to stop to let him out anyway).

Lastly, and probably most importantly, the bus.. I always had it in my mind that diesel was the way to go, considering their lifespan, but I have opened my mind, and am totally open to suggestions. Who knows how many miles we end up putting on this thing, but I am hoping to find a bus with under 150k miles in our price range, regardless. Are there any notorious drive trains, transmissions, motors, that I should avoid?

Again, any and all constructive criticism is appreciated (I know this was kind of lengthy, but I don't want to short myself).

Keep in mind, we are young, with a budget. Thanks!

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Old 06-25-2015, 07:13 AM   #2
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Welcome to the insanity. Read through the various build threads and see how others have built their rigs. Unless you're made of money, avoid gassers and CAT engines- gassers because of extremely low mileage/gallon and CATs because their parts are proprietary and can only be found at a CAT dealer. Navistar and Cummins parts can be found just about everywhere.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:54 AM   #3
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I am either terrible at navigating this thread, can't find answers specific to my needs, or am just being too needy. In any case, I will dig a little deeper, and get a little more involved. Thanks for your support, and I look forward to starting my project!!
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvanydke287 View Post
I am either terrible at navigating this thread, can't find answers specific to my needs, or am just being too needy. In any case, I will dig a little deeper, and get a little more involved. Thanks for your support, and I look forward to starting my project!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvanydke287 View Post


I don't mind living life in the slow lane, but I would prefer not to drive a huge rig, so the smallest bus I can get away with, the better.

More space is probably important if you're living in it full time. I got a shorter full sized bus (instead of a short bus on a van chassis). It is 26' overall length. 22' of livable interior. 12' wheelbase. It's about as easy to maneuver as a large pickup truck. There are 1-ton trucks with longer wheelbases.


-totally redo all the insulation, floor, walls, and ceiling

If you're gonna be living in it full time this is the only way to go.

-small fridge, chargers (computer, single cell phone), LED lights (maybe 8-12), and a small TV that will only run every so often, on a solar set up - this is probably where I am most lost.. I was thinking 200W of power, with a 1500W inverter, and 2-4 battery bank. Does this sound reasonable?

Look into forklift batteries. You're probably gonna need more power than you think.

-Propane heat, and cook top

Get a carbon monoxide detector. And a fire extinguisher.

-Rain water collection with small (5-10 gallons), used only for kitchen sink and drinking water - possibly an overflow tank in case we get some real rainy weather.

You probably need more water than that. And I wouldn't drink rain water.

-rooftop deck

Sounds like fun. A lot of people put those on Nascar/Tailgating busses. You need hand rails for safety. Also, keep it short enough to be legal. Know your height and the height of any thing you'll be driving under.

-Outdoor cold shower using limited collection water (I figure using a heating system with a pump will just require more storage, resulting in more weight)

If you're living somewhere that you won't be needing A/C (which I'm assuming because you've only mentioned a heater and not an A/C) you probably won't be taking many outdoor cold showers in the winter. Pumps are small. Hot water heaters can be pretty small too. You've already got that propane for the heater, why not use it for the cooktop and hot water as well?

I think I can figure out the design, and consider what we want vs need. As I said, I am most lost in the solar electric set up. I have done research, but it is all so confusing to me. Here are some things that are up in the air for me, that I could use some experienced advice on:


-Propane cooking vs induction - If I add induction, will I need a lot more solar power?

You might not have enough power for electric. Go with gas.

-Propane heat vs electric - We plan on pretty much chasing the weather, so I don't see us using a lot of heat.

You might not have enough power for electric. Go with gas.

-Composting toilet vs camping toilet vs black water holding - I would like to do as little plumbing as possible to avoid any future headaches, and as I said, we are in no rush, so we don't mind stopping at rest stops whenever we need to (we have a dog, and will have to stop to let him out anyway).

Composting toilet will save you plumbing work. You'll just have to do the vent. Living out of rest stops does not sound like my idea of a good life.

Lastly, and probably most importantly, the bus.. I always had it in my mind that diesel was the way to go, considering their lifespan, but I have opened my mind, and am totally open to suggestions. Who knows how many miles we end up putting on this thing, but I am hoping to find a bus with under 150k miles in our price range, regardless. Are there any notorious drive trains, transmissions, motors, that I should avoid?

People tend to prefer six cylinders over eight. People tend to dislike the AT545 transmission. I just bought a bus with the AT545. I don't hate it yet.

Again, any and all constructive criticism is appreciated (I know this was kind of lengthy, but I don't want to short myself).

Keep in mind, we are young, with a budget. Thanks!

You're talking about building a full time house. It's gonna be expensive to get something good and reliable. Keep that in mind.
Good luck with your build. I'm having fun with mine so far. Chosing to live in a skoolie is a big decision. There are some people here who can talk to that.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:21 AM   #5
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Another thing to keep in mind is your axle ratio. That drives your top speed. Know your top speed at a comfortable RPM before buying the bus.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:32 AM   #6
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Consider alcohol base cooking. Propane is under pressure and can leak. Ask our forum photographer about that deal. He got heavy burns from his build. That's why we're looking at alcohol. No pressure.

As far as size, larger is ALWAYS better. No one enjoys squeezing into a shoebox. Remember, the objective is to make this your home.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:48 AM   #7
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Austin - Those are the exact type of answers I was looking for. Thank you for taking time to answer them. I understand your point on budgeting. I will more than likely take a little more time to build this than my desires intend, just to make sure I make it livable. We live in eastern MD (not that it gets real hot, but its not uncommon for it to be in the 90s for a couple weeks at a time), and we rarely turn our AC on, so our house in usually around 85-90 in the summer time - we can live with that.. its the cold that we can't really stand. That is why I want to add a heater just in case, but chase the weather around. As far as drinking water, if we wanted to go as off grid as possible, do you have any suggestions? Maybe some sort of filter? Maybe get a larger tank and fill at campgrounds or any other free or cheap place we find? I didn't want to add too much weight to the bus, so that's why I limited the size.

M1031A1 - Thanks for the tip. I haven't even considered that, but definitely will now. After minor research, I also see alcohol heating options. Again, I want to keep it small, but not too small, as not to sacrifice space, but if we plan on chasing the weather, we plan to spend a lot of time outside, so most of the cooking would be done outside (I understand that will not always be the case, so I still need indoor cooking). I will do more research on this topic. Thanks again for the tip!

I am loving this forum already!
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:52 AM   #8
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us View Post
Another thing to keep in mind is your axle ratio. That drives your top speed. Know your top speed at a comfortable RPM before buying the bus.
A thousand times this. Many route buses have really low axle gearing so they're next to useless for highway driving. I've driven some Bluebirds that couldn't get over 55 mph due to the axle/transmission setup.

Try to find trip buses, they're usually identified by the underbelly storage and sometimes interior luggage racks.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:08 PM   #10
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The guy who owns my storage unit told me about one of the other guys who has a bus in the storage unit. Apparently he killed the bus driving it home at 60mph. Basically running it at way too high rpms.

Luckily, my bus has a 4.33 rear end and 38.5" tires. So, even with the AT545 I can go 65mph at less than 2500rpm.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:24 PM   #11
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Seeing that I really know nothing about buses (yet), would it be safe to assume I could find a bus that stays under 2000 RPM at 60 MPH? If I could get around that, what are some key things I should be looking for? Excuse me, for I am no mechanic.. that might be a problem down the road, but I'll figure it out.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kvanydke287 View Post
Seeing that I really know nothing about buses (yet), would it be safe to assume I could find a bus that stays under 2000 RPM at 60 MPH? If I could get around that, what are some key things I should be looking for? Excuse me, for I am no mechanic.. that might be a problem down the road, but I'll figure it out.
It'd help to have full sized tires. 11Rx22.5 are some of the most common. I think they're close to 40" diameter. My 10Rx22.5s are 38.5".

You also need a good axle ratio. The smaller the number the better. Mine is 4.33 and that's pretty good. A lot of people have 5+.

A couple of reference points:

Speeds at 2000 rpm (assuming 1:1 final gear ratio and 40" tires):

5.5 axle ratio: 43.3 mph
5 axle ratio: 47.6 mph
4.5 axle ratio: 52.9 mph
4 axle ratio: 59.5 mph

Overdrive would also help a fair amount.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:49 PM   #13
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so, I looked at the specs on the allison md3060 transmission.

the first overdrive gear is 0.75. the highest gear is 0.65. Given a 40" tire with the engine at 2000 rpm and an axle ratio of 5 that equates to a speed of 63.5 mph in 5th gear and 73.2 mph in 6th gear.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:49 PM   #14
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As I said, I don't mind living life in the slow lane. Back roads and <55MPH sounds like a decent life to me. Not to mention the savings in gas (where it would apply). Thanks for the info, I will be keep all that in mind when the time comes.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:57 PM   #15
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Speed Potential Calculator For Ring Gear And Pinion Changes

here's the calculator i've been using. play with it a bit when you're researching busses.
Posted this on the wrong thread
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:15 PM   #16
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ah, a short bus vs larger bus question....
the way I'm going to approach is the way I look at toilet paper.

It's better to have toilet paper and not need it, than to need it and not have it!

Only you know of your size requirements and know what you can and cannot live with or without.
Although my 5 year plan is considering it will only be myself in the bus... I cannot say I'll be alone in 5 years.

personally, I'm searching for the larger 2ply Charmin.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:01 PM   #17
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We bought a propane RV stove/oven combo. Then we sold our propane RV stove/oven combo without every taking it from the house to the bus.

After reading here and finding out after the fact that Hubby does not want to deal with propane we ended up going with an induction burner and one of the NuWave ovens.

I have been using both in the house here since October of last year and I love them both. Neither put out very much heat and cook superfast. I turned my house stove into a countertop with tons of storage in the oven.

We got the rental bill a couple of months ago for our propane tank and because I don't want to renew it I tried to use up the 6% propane left in the tank so they can come & get it. I tried going back to the house stove and after about a month I said fu--rget it & told them to come & get it, gas and all.

I also like the idea of being able to store these away when I'm not cooking in a much smaller space than a stove would take up.

I had originally thought to use a 24 inch propane kitchen stove for heat & cooking as I had done in my first bus but I couldn't finding any that didn't cost an arm & a leg....and thinking back to how we installed it, it's surprising the fumes didn't kill us or blow us up. I guess the Universe is indeed watching out for us.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:18 AM   #18
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We bought a propane RV stove/oven combo. Then we sold our propane RV stove/oven combo without every taking it from the house to the bus.
Did you opt against it, because of the fumes, and possibility of ignition? I have seen people using propane for years, and with proper care and ventilation, they have no problems. I am just curious why you decided not to use it. Obviously safety is my number 1 concern, but I am curious how much more solar components I will have to invest in, in order to run convection. I don't plan on having an oven (maybe some time in the future), so that should help.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:24 AM   #19
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ah, a short bus vs larger bus question....
the way I'm going to approach is the way I look at toilet paper.

It's better to have toilet paper and not need it, than to need it and not have it!

Only you know of your size requirements and know what you can and cannot live with or without.
Although my 5 year plan is considering it will only be myself in the bus... I cannot say I'll be alone in 5 years.

personally, I'm searching for the larger 2ply Charmin.
I absolutely hear you. When I first came up with this crazy idea, I thought we would just be travelling around for extended periods of time. Considering I am going to have to quit my job, why would I want to come back, just to try to find another job? We might as well stay on the road. Who knows, maybe we find a spot we want to settle down in a year, in which case, some might say a larger bus might be over kill. At the same time, I figured if that time does come, we could continue to live out of the bus instead of going back to paying rent. The more time I spend on here, and the more I think about it, the bigger my envisioned bus is getting. I still would like to keep it on the smaller side for ease and simplicity, but I think a 30 passenger (I know they are referred to by interior size, which I think would be about 35'? But I am still learning, so I am not up with the lingo) would be perfect - small enough that she can feel comfortable driving, but big enough to live our lives in.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:27 AM   #20
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Yeah, its much easier to go by length than kid count!
Mine is a 78 passenger and is 40'.
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