Twin Honda EU200i or One Big Genny??

[lapeer20m]

my vote is for twin honda's!!

I love the honda eu series. When i camp in the desert at burningman i average 15 hours per gallon of fuel on a honda eu2000 that runs pretty much non-stop for a week to 10 days. That's running small jacuzzi pump, chest freezer, lights, sterero, various chargers for camera's dewalt tools etc, and a laptop among other things. The freezer runs pretty much non-stop during the daylight hours. Those little honda's rock...and they are so quiet, and portable.

[Redbear]

These are two completely different designs. The Onans and others in that class make 60 Hz by doing their best impression of turning EXACTLY at design RPM. 'Synchronous' gensets usually turn 1800 RPM for extended-service ones, and a screamin' 3600 RPM for occasional-duty ones. I've heard 1000 hours is about all you can expect out of them, and as I have spent taxpayers' dollars on a lot of generator repairs, nothing has discouraged that notion yet. If I had a long-term need to run a genny for hours per day, I would probably get a liquid-cooled diesel, if I could find one.

When there is a change in load, i.e a sudden increase or decrease in current draw, the throttle has to snap open or closed to try to maintain the governed rpm. There will be a frequency error until the RPM re-stabilizes. Some later models of these generators have an "energy save" function, which when no load is sensed doesn't try to maintain frequency but instead drops the engine to an idle. The power isn't usable during energy save.

I understand the Honda models use an inverter-generator. The frequency is created by an inverter similar to the one that would make AC from your house batteries. The generator only has to run fast enough to make the power required, since the 60 Hz is produced by the electronics and not the engine RPM. Hence, less fuel use and quieter operation.

I would make my choice based on what was more important - accurate frequency (Honda), fuel efficiency (Honda), low noise (Honda), or surge capacity (Onan). If I was trying to start a motor, and was going to have instantaneous 500% current draws, I would think the unfiltered windings of the big genny would take the strain better than transistors. Having made my living fixing broken electronics for the last 28+ years, I would worry about popping inverter transistors with a severe overload. (Stuck Sawzall blade??) Maybe I'm paranoid, but "Being paranoid doesn't necessarily mean they are NOT out to get you!"

From what I've read on other boards, the genny I really lust after is the 2k Yamaha inverter model, not the 1k or 2 k Honda. It supposedly out-performs the Honda 2k, is quieter than their 2k, and is even as quiet or quieter than their 1k! I hate noise and vibration. I don't remember if it can be twinned to make 4k, and you want to run air conditioning, so YMMV.

edit: Found it: http://www.mayberrys.com/yamaha/generat ... ef2400.htm

[lapeer20m]

Originally Posted by vanguy67

There was competition between Edison and Westinghouse for the electrification of America. The Edison system used DC voltage whereas the Westinghouse system used AC voltage. The Westinghouse AC system won out because there was so much power loss in the Edison DC system over long wire runs. That's why you have AC current in your house (and homes worldwide) instead of DC current!

edison waged warefare against westinghouse and tesla(the inventor of the ac generator) in the media to try to convince the american population that alternating current was way more dangerous than DC. He even made a great film of an elephant being killed with AC current. It's also edison who suggested that they use AC current in the electric chair. Edison was a bit of an evil guy, so was Henry Ford, who gave a lot of money to edison. but that's a story for another day.

[bus-bro]

Actually, the highest voltage transmission lines are DC. Its more efficent.

[Redbear]

AC can be stepped up or down with transformers - DC can't. The constant creation and collapse of magnetic fields in transformers' primary windings causes induced AC current flow in the secondaries. (Though DC switched on and off fed through an igntion coil or inside an inverter behaves like AC.) High voltage is what makes electricity efficient for transport. High current is what causes heating and requires bigger wires. High voltage has more 'pressure' just waiting to arc, and requires better insulators.

Since power equals volts times amps, a megawatt is a little under 76 amps on top of the poles at 13.2 kV, but is 8000 amps at 120 volts. In an intercity 345 kV line, it would be only 2.9 amps. That explains the little wires hung from BIIIG insulators on the TALLL towers.

Edit: Post 100! No longer "Almost There!"

[Redbear]

Looks like I got my Yamahas mixed up - It's the "1kW" (900 watt continuous) that, at full output, is about as quiet as a 900 watt Honda at idle.

I found and downloaded a manual on the "2kW" (1600 watt) EU2000iA Honda, because I was curious about parallel operation. There was a schematic in the manual. Surprise, there's no magic! The banana plugs for the parallel kit are wired the same as the 120-volt sockets, except they bypass the circuit breaker and are "hot." A poster on another site found that all the wires are just tied together. (Hot to hot, neutral to neutral, ground to ground - true parallel operation)

You can build a "hillbilly" parallel kit with two standard 3-prong plugs, a 30-amp 120-volt outlet, and a few feet of #12 cord. The breakers on each genny will be in the circuit. Just be sure not to run your adapter on one genny with the suicide male for the second genny unplugged and exposed! This set up is definitely NOT Underwriter's Laboratories approved. If you don't understand what you are doing, DON'T! (By the way, the official Honda cables have hot pins when only one genny is connected, too, but from what I've seen I think there might be plastic guards over them to reduce the Darwin effect.)

By the way. there is a new "2kW" (1600 watt) EF2000iS Yamaha not quite so expensive as the one in the link I posted before, at Wise Sales for $909.99 with free shipping. Optional digital tachometer/hour meter is an added $50. http://www.wisesales.com/yamaha_ef2000is.html
I definitely like it better than the one in the link I posted before. I can't find a manual online, a search found a url to a .pdf at a dealer site, but the dealer took it down, probably at Yamaha's insistence. I was wondering if the parallel operation was as simple as the Honda's.

[nearhomeless]

It's worth noting that a typical air cooled 3600rpm portable generator is replaced after 500-1500 hours of usage. For occasional camping or use for a few hours to at most a few days at a time of backup power this isn't so much of an issue, but if you actually intend to use it alot it's worth considering expected lifespan as well.