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Old 05-24-2016, 12:54 PM   #21
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One more very important welding note...

Never do any welding on any vehicle with any computers on board without disconnecting the battery! You can turn a couple of grand worth of gizmos into toast in a heartbeat. Transmissions are especially susceptible...and expensive.

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Old 05-24-2016, 01:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T View Post
"I would like to add, That the centered part does not apply to the web of a frame. but the 3/4 inch from the shoulder does."

For clarification, Is Nat saying it's ok to drill in the web as long as your more than 3/4in away from the shoulder??

No that is me. Nat only addressed the flange due to the original question I asked.
It is widely accepted and has not been debated that you can drill holes in the web of modern MDT/HDT bus frames.
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:50 PM   #23
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Someone should have told Champion. They welded their back bumper and rear backsplash to the Ford chassis on my bus. As did I when I made my rear bumper/trailer hitch.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:00 PM   #24
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Someone should have told Champion. They welded their back bumper and rear backsplash to the Ford chassis on my bus. As did I when I made my rear bumper/trailer hitch.
Im not sure why you welded your trailer hitch to the frame, there is no reason to.

I think the point isn't you cant weld to the frame, but that if you say you can then people who shouldn't be welding something so important weld the **** out of the middle section of the frame and weaken it.

I specify the middle of the frame as it is most likely to crack there.

IMO there is not a good reason to weld to a vehicle frame other than laziness.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sdwarf36 View Post
Someone should have told Champion. They welded their back bumper and rear backsplash to the Ford chassis on my bus. As did I when I made my rear bumper/trailer hitch.
They proably had them stressed relieved/ heat treated afterwards,that what we do when we weld on jet engine parts.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:12 PM   #26
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And was that even the vehicle frame or a sub-frame assembly? Alot of those cutaway buses and RVs the chassis manufacturer frame ends at the rear drive axle and everything back is sub-assembly from the body upfitter. My granddad was limited in the size hitch he could get because it would be mounted to a sub-frame, not the chassis frame... Anything bigger than his bass boat and they were concerned it would eventually torque the back end off the rig!
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Old 12-04-2022, 08:35 AM   #27
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:26 PM   #28
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I plan on installing outriggers for levelers. I have heard that welding is a no-no on truck frames because it will ruin the temper. On the the other hand I have seen welding done.

So, whats the scoop, can I weld to the frame, or do I have to bolt things on ?
Outriggers sound like an extreme solution to a problem with many other solutions-just sayin'.

Welding frames is a topic that encroaches on the mystery of automotive engineering, and we DIYers should tread carefully.

There is no clear or good information on welding automotive frames. Generally, it appears that all frames are manufactured and hardened ('tempered') so they are strong and somewhat flexible but not brittle. If you weld in areas of stress, such as around leaf spring brackets or near crossmembers you risk your welding will change the temper of the steel, if it is tempered, and again, it appears most vehicle frames are.

'Don't do it' is all over the Internet, because You May Do Something Tragic!

My limited experience with welding tempered steel is trying to use bedrail, which is wicked tempered, and that stuff just cracks around the joints. I'm told you can heat up the steel and let it cool gradually, untempering it, then it will weld okay, but that's a project for a future date.

For buses, my opinion is you can spot weld just fine, for instance, to attach a bumper or secure a bracket for a stabilizer. There's enough evidence that whatever tempering is done to a bus frame it's not so extreme that you screw up the steel around the weld.

Having said that I just don't plan on doing it because my dinky bus is 14K pounds of force parked, and many times that on the road at highway speeds. This seems like a good place not to take chances if bolting is an option.

I fabricated a bumper extension and hitch receiver, but I bolted it to the frame. When I drilled the C channel it definitely felt like more than mild untempered steel, for what that's worth.

Bolt hole placement is another topic, but because most of my bolt holes were already there I felt adding a few on the frame behind the rear spring mounts was an acceptable risk.
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:28 PM   #29
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Sh!t. This thread is seven years old.
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Old 12-04-2022, 07:04 PM   #30
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Sh!t. This thread is seven years old.
Yep, OP is already dead from driving around with a welded chassis rail.
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Old 12-04-2022, 09:31 PM   #31
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Yep, OP is already dead from driving around with a welded chassis rail.
Friends don't let friends drive on welded chassis rails...but seriously don't weld on your frame.

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Old 12-05-2022, 01:44 AM   #32
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Crown welded on their frames. The spare tire supports were welded to the frame on the outside of the rail. If you weld on the side of the frame you will be OK if done properly. Welding outriggers to the frame introduces another problem. for instance if you weld something to the frame with a vertical bead and apply torque against that weld so that force is applied that would pull on the bead vertically you may well cause the weld or the metal its on to "tear" or crack the frame. The spare tire support in Crowns does not apply force that way.
The attached image shows the original spare tire support in the "new Crown" as modified to be the generator mount.
The cross-members were welded to the frame also. Those cross members do not hold up the whole bus like levelers would. Go to a good welding shop and see if they will do it. Keep in mind that welders are not particularly fond of welding on a vehicle full of gas.
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generator mounts.jpg  
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:39 AM   #33
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Yep, OP is already dead from driving around with a welded chassis rail.
Hilarious!
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