Went to my first bus auction today! I have some questions...

[RomaniGypsy]

Okay, so it was an "online only" auction, but I still went to the "viewing" time, and looked at the buses. Here are some questions.

1) A mechanic started one of the buses, a 2004 Thomas (front engine, flat nose) with a Cummins 5.9 (EFISB205), and it shook the entire bus like an enormous rattle. When he revved it up to about 1200 rpm, the engine sounded perfectly smooth and the vibration stopped. When he let it go down to idle again, it made the bus shake again (surely due to "resonant frequency"). He said that this was a common issue with "black engines"... I asked him what he meant and he said that these engines had different-colored doghouses at different times, so the ones with a black doghouse tended to vibrate the bus at idle. Any thoughts?

2) What is the better measure of how "used up" an engine is - mileage, or hours? I noticed that this one bus had only 72,000-some miles, but over 10,000 hours. Doing some quick calculations, I figured that an average passenger vehicle, traveling at around 36 mph average for as long as its engine was running, would accumulate 72,000 miles in only about 2,000 engine hours... and 10,000 engine hours would equate to 360,000 miles. I know that this is inexact, but would 10,000 engine hours be considered "really high" just as 360,000 miles would be considered "really high"?

3) I saw three gearshift selection patterns. One was RND321 - is that an AT545? One was RN(D)D21, meaning overdrive. The other was RN(D)421. Do you know what transmissions those gear selection patterns suggest?

4) How easy is it to install seat belts in a bus, for only one or two seats, if the bus doesn't already have them?

5) How can you tell if the tires on a bus are used up? I ran my finger through the treads and didn't feel wear bars like you can with regular car tires. Is there a "minimum depth" below which a bus tire should be replaced?

6) Is it normal for Blue Bird buses with passenger window tops higher than the top of the driver's window to be 74" interior height instead of 78"? The Thomas buses that had the different window heights were 78" but the Blue Bird (also front engine flat nose) was 74" in spite of that window line.

I don't think I'm going to bid on any of the buses because they all seemed too rusty. Even the mechanic said that the one bus he showed me was being retired because the body was getting too rusty. The interiors looked nice, apart from some rust on the floor trim. There was one 2008-model bus, and though that seemed really new, I think it was also being retired due to rust.

I've also gotten to thinking that I may need a full size bus. The 2008 was a mid-size, and it looked too small as I was looking around it.

So, any assistance would be appreciated...

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Yeah. Bid somewhere outside of Ohio. And avoid the late model engines with the emissions hardware on them, they are a nightmare.

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Yeah. Bid somewhere outside of Ohio. And avoid the late model engines with the emissions hardware on them, they are a nightmare.

What years was bad for this ? Gas engines or just diesel ?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by ACamper

What years was bad for this ? Gas engines or just diesel ?

Referring to diesel engines generally '08 and up. The DPF systems are bad enough. DEF systems are even worse.

Gas engines in full size buses will be fuel hogs on the road and underpowered for most folks.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by ACamper

What years was bad for this ? Gas engines or just diesel ?

2007/8 and later.

Emissions control started to appear on buses around 2004, or so, but has steadily become more complex.

Latest vehicles now have to have DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid ... basically pee) as well as fuel, to cut down the particulates. It all works well, until it doesn't.

[ACamper]

^^ Thanks for the clarification. I had heard about it on here but wasn't sure of the years.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by ACamper

^^ Thanks for the clarification. I had heard about it on here but wasn't sure of the years.

Good engines are mechanical .
DT466 Mechanical, DT530 inframe rebuild. i think these went electronic.

5.9 CUMMINS 12 VALVE. Means no computer. 24 valve means computer.

[RomaniGypsy]

Well okay... but most of my questions haven't been answered yet.

I have to admit, it's tempting to bid on some of these buses. They were just retired after the past school year and some of them aren't even at $1,000 yet with less than one hour to go in the auction. At that rate, it seems as though rust would be no big deal.

Could I drive it home without a CDL though? And then there's the insurance problem...

[Brad_SwiftFur]

There's a *REASON* no one's bidding on them. Rust is probably the biggest factor.

Yes, you could get it home without a CDL.

Insurance has been covered at great lengths, so I won't repeat it here.

[eliyahu]

RV Tire Age, Care & Replacement
https://youtu.be/X7scHIvjyBk

[miscrms]

My understanding is most buses can be ordered in a variety of roof heights, it's not a one brand or the other thing. The '97 BB I'm getting is 77" on the build sheet, measures closer to 76" internal floor to peak of the ceiling.


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[miscrms]

My understanding is you can't really ID the transmission by the shifter. Different builders used different ones at different times on the same transmission, and I've even heard it could be another custom order option for different shifter types independent of transmission. A push button probably indicates a 2000 or 3000 series though, but even they I think could be ordered with a traditional looking shifter.

On a BlueBird if you have the VIN or body number you can look up the build sheet and at least see what was put in it originally.

https://vantage.blue-bird.com/Portal...?srcaud=Portal


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[miscrms]

I would avoid anything with rust unless you are really good at welding and have a lot of time on your hands.


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[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

Well okay... but most of my questions haven't been answered yet.

I have to admit, it's tempting to bid on some of these buses. They were just retired after the past school year and some of them aren't even at $1,000 yet with less than one hour to go in the auction. At that rate, it seems as though rust would be no big deal.

Could I drive it home without a CDL though? And then there's the insurance problem...

you are in hoio insurancde should be easy for you.. you CALL!!! (dont go online).. progressive COMNMERCIAL!! not consumer.. and you tell them you bought a BUS and want to insure it as a commercial vehicle for personal use.. it will be moire expensive than some options.. and its NOT a CONVERSION! ITS BUS! I tell them no more than answer the queston they ask..

once you have it fully converted then you have some other RV insurance options available that will insure skoolies once converted..

progressive commercial seems not to cancel those in ohio.. (they are based in cleveland).
-Christopher

[cadillackid]

transmissions with the D-4-2-1. or (D)-D-2-1. will be over-drive transmissions.. still doesnt mean you have a go-fast bus.. the rear gears are still important..

if the bus is a Navistar you can snag the VIN from under the hood (sometimes inside above the driver window). and then call a navistar dealer (I use rush truck in columbus ohio).. they can tell you the rear gear ratio. and the transmission in it.

rust - rust is only an issue if its in an area that will cause you issues or cause issues with your conversion / living.. a completely rotted out floor is going to cause you issues converting / travelling. body rust that has full rust holes is going to require metal welded in..

some flaky rust on the bottom ribs. but not rusted out? you can apply rust concverter and undercoat it and probably not cause you issues..

-Christopher

[pengyou]

Originally Posted by Versatile

Good engines are mechanical .
DT466 Mechanical, DT530 inframe rebuild. i think these went electronic.

5.9 CUMMINS 12 VALVE. Means no computer. 24 valve means computer.

Is there a difference in the power produced or mpg by these two engines? The cummins

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by pengyou

Is there a difference in the power produced or mpg by these two engines? The cummins

Yes. They are both good engines. The 97 12V w/5 speed is rated at 215 HP & 440 Ftlbs of torque and the 02 24V w/6 speed is rated at 235 HP. & 505 Ftlbs of torque.

Electronic gets better milage.