Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2016, 12:23 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Zndrson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 47
Year: 1998
Coachwork: International Amtran
Chassis: Genesis
Engine: DT466 (MT643 trans)
Rated Cap: 19
What I've learned- Buying skoolie from dealer

Hey guys,

So I had a very eventful Saturday. I made a lot of mistakes in buying a new bus when I flew down to arizona to purchase from a dealer. Hopefully my experience will help those in a similar situation (buying first bus).

The bus was a 2001 International front engine flat nose. 34' long, with DT466 and Allison 643. Was very happy with this combination. Dealer started at $6900 but came down to 5900. That was still above our initial budget, but the length is perfect for us, and having done the previous research we definitely wanted the dt466 and Allison 643. I also felt more comfortable buying from a dealer because they would surely inspect it before sale... especially since this dealership also services.



After a short test drive and inspection, I made the buy and started the 13 hour drive home. The bus had a short wheel base so it was easier to drive. I clipped a couple curbs on right hand turns, but quickly got the hang of it.

Shortly after getting on the interstate to begin the 13 hour drive home, the bus fell from 55mph to 35mph at full throttle (over 2500rpm to maintain 35mph). I got the bus to limp off the interstate and parked it behind a Walgreens.

Frustrated, I called the dealer to ask what they thought was going on. No response. Bear in mind, I had only purchased the bus 90 minutes ago and already had issues...from a dealership-not some craigslist dice roll. After several texts and panicked VMs, still no response... I felt so defeated. 5900 for a bus that I couldn't even drive home, would have to tow ($200 then $5/mile), store until at least Monday, and then throw more money at to fix, and then eventually still have to get it to Colorado. A "perfect" $5900 had just turned into a $9k nightmare- or so I thought sitting on a bench in front of Walgreens.

Finally- I was able to get a hold of the dealer's roadside assistance. They were then able to get in contact with the saleswoman I was working with- turns out she didn't have her business cell phone with her and wasn't purposefully screening my calls.

The initial thought was to have a mobile mechanic come out and look at it, but one of the reasons I was ok with paying more for this bus was that it came from a dealer which, I imagined, would inspect the bus prior to sale- thus I would be buying a more reliable vehicle.

Clearly I was mistaken. I called the dealer and stated that I didn't have any confidence in driving the vehicle even if a mobile mechanic fixed it, and that I'd have to ask for my money back. To my surprise, she understood, sent a tow truck, and gave me my money back.



I was still out cab fair and flights, but I still count myself lucky.

So: In Bulleted form:

• Don't trust the bus to be completely mechanically sound- even if its from a dealership. If possible, have it inspected BEFORE driving home if its a long haul

• Test drive in as many situations as possible. Hills, city, highway, etc. Obviously some issues won't show themselves until the bus has been put in that situation. Just because the engine starts right up doesn't mean there aren't other issues.

• Being in Arizona in summer is like standing on the surface of the sun.

• Dog houses are LOUD, generate a LOT of heat and produce INTENSE vibration...

• Had to get commercial insurance to be legal. Not cheap, but wasn't too difficult either. Purchased from Progressive through a local dealer. Paid $178 for the first month. Purely liability. Of course will get diff. Ins. after conversion, but while its still titled as a school bus insurance can be tricky. Commercial seemed to be the way to go.

Learn from my mistakes!

Zndrson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 12:58 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zndrson View Post
Hey guys,

So I had a very eventful Saturday. I made a lot of mistakes in buying a new bus when I flew down to arizona to purchase from a dealer. Hopefully my experience will help those in a similar situation (buying first bus).

The bus was a 2001 International front engine flat nose. 34' long, with DT466 and Allison 643. Was very happy with this combination. Dealer started at $6900 but came down to 5900. That was still above our initial budget, but the length is perfect for us, and having done the previous research we definitely wanted the dt466 and Allison 643. I also felt more comfortable buying from a dealer because they would surely inspect it before sale... especially since this dealership also services.



After a short test drive and inspection, I made the buy and started the 13 hour drive home. The bus had a short wheel base so it was easier to drive. I clipped a couple curbs on right hand turns, but quickly got the hang of it.

Shortly after getting on the interstate to begin the 13 hour drive home, the bus fell from 55mph to 35mph at full throttle (over 2500rpm to maintain 35mph). I got the bus to limp off the interstate and parked it behind a Walgreens.

Frustrated, I called the dealer to ask what they thought was going on. No response. Bear in mind, I had only purchased the bus 90 minutes ago and already had issues...from a dealership-not some craigslist dice roll. After several texts and panicked VMs, still no response... I felt so defeated. 5900 for a bus that I couldn't even drive home, would have to tow ($200 then $5/mile), store until at least Monday, and then throw more money at to fix, and then eventually still have to get it to Colorado. A "perfect" $5900 had just turned into a $9k nightmare- or so I thought sitting on a bench in front of Walgreens.

Finally- I was able to get a hold of the dealer's roadside assistance. They were then able to get in contact with the saleswoman I was working with- turns out she didn't have her business cell phone with her and wasn't purposefully screening my calls.

The initial thought was to have a mobile mechanic come out and look at it, but one of the reasons I was ok with paying more for this bus was that it came from a dealer which, I imagined, would inspect the bus prior to sale- thus I would be buying a more reliable vehicle.

Clearly I was mistaken. I called the dealer and stated that I didn't have any confidence in driving the vehicle even if a mobile mechanic fixed it, and that I'd have to ask for my money back. To my surprise, she understood, sent a tow truck, and gave me my money back.



I was still out cab fair and flights, but I still count myself lucky.

So: In Bulleted form:

• Don't trust the bus to be completely mechanically sound- even if its from a dealership. If possible, have it inspected BEFORE driving home if its a long haul

• Test drive in as many situations as possible. Hills, city, highway, etc. Obviously some issues won't show themselves until the bus has been put in that situation. Just because the engine starts right up doesn't mean there aren't other issues.

• Being in Arizona in summer is like standing on the surface of the sun.

• Dog houses are LOUD, generate a LOT of heat and produce INTENSE vibration...

Learn from my mistakes!
THe word "dealer" should scare off most folks.
An auction bus is as safe a bet or safer, and much much cheaper. My $2150 bus got me home and still goes for joyrides.
Hell I'd sell ya my bus for 7 grand!
Glad you got it sorted out, mostly, and that you are safe.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 01:26 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
The truly amazing part of this story is that they gave you your money back. Most of these deals are on an "as is" basis and as soon as the money changes hands...you are on your own. Actually a pretty good endorsement for this particular dealer I'd say.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 01:38 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Carytowncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Richmond Virginia
Posts: 932
Year: 1984
Engine: 366 Big block Chevy! :) w/ Stick shift
Yes i second the motion that this is a stand up dealer.

Very likely they simply did not know of the issue but to give your money back?
I have NEVER heared of a dealer giving a refund.

Glad you are home safe, thanks for sharing your valuable lesson with others.

In the midst of the insane excitement; I too paid and then drove. In hind sight i cringe at what a disaster i risked, when a simple drive long enough to get up to temp and speed was surely in order for such a large cash transaction.



The beautiful thing about us Skoolies is that we do risk, we do learn, we get back up, and we do continue on.
Carytowncat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 01:47 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Zndrson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 47
Year: 1998
Coachwork: International Amtran
Chassis: Genesis
Engine: DT466 (MT643 trans)
Rated Cap: 19
Indeed- throughout the entire process they were great to work with. Salesperson was responsive, understanding, and considerate. Keep in mind too this all happened on a Saturday and they were technically closed!

And yes, this was as-is. They were under no legal obligation to provide any refund- though it was certainly the decent thing to do. Again- I count myself very lucky.

Can't say they'll do that every time by any means- but they're good people.

The bus had just come off a route and had been inspected by the state in the same year with a clean stamp of approval. Dealer wasn't trying to take advantage, just didn't know about the issue.

Dealer was Canyon State Bus Sales. I would recommend them for someone looking to buy that's a little closer. I won't be taking such a gamble again (flights with intent to drive home), but they could be a really good resource for someone closer,
Zndrson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 02:51 PM   #6
Skoolie
 
karrlot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manitou Springs, CO
Posts: 219
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Ward
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65 passenger
One reason I paid about $500 more than my budget was because the bus was on the other side of town, not the other side of the continental divide.

Congrats on a fantastic outcome!
__________________
Please check out my blog-
Follow the (lack of) progress on the Karr Family Kamping Bus Blog
Here is my woefully inadequate build thread:
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/i-...bus-12296.html
karrlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 03:04 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Having been in the government surplus business for 17 years I've learned to do due diligence before going to auctions as well. There are several good places to find out the reputation of various school districts and if they cut corners or not. California has an excellent reputation for throwing away top notch buses at scrap prices at auction. Check them out next time. I found a small school district that has an outstanding reputation with keeping their buses in perfect order. They buy top-of-the-line buses and keep them that way. Well worth the plane fare and road trip in 115* summer heat with no A/C.

Try looking west young man, it seems to pay off for many people.

Just my two cents and almost two decades of surplus experience.......

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 03:13 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Roger that. And states that experience a total of 3-4" of precipitation annually (including snow) are going to be about as rust free as any metal you can find.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 03:28 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 21
Year: 1996
Chassis: International Genesis
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: This guy
I was planning on driving up to Phoenix later this week to see that EXACT bus! Thanks for giving me some bargaining room!
CeramicHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 03:41 PM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,757
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I got my bus from a dealer and had a breakdown on the way home... after all i had made it 450 miles into my ride when it occured... being it was the air brakes compressor that just conked i really didnt blame the dealer for selling me a defective bus... after all i also knew it had been driven 1000 miles before I got it..

they were indeed helpful in helping me find the parts and get back on the road.. albeit the mobile service company i chose.. (their preferred service was booked solid so I chose #2 on truckdown..) ended up beign a doofus..

I found something later on I thought was going to be fixed and wasnt.. and they said.. No issues we'll fix it for free..

the reality is we are dealing with used vehicles that the dealers pretty much buy from the autcion sites, wash, change the oil, and mark up.. they typically dont do a ton to them unless they have to....

I understand you feeling a bit un-trusting of the bus and the dealer.. but if you were to fix this bus and drvie it home now you WILL have a bus that has been completely gone through and ready to go.. so I say Fix the bus rather than get the money back, and enjoy it for years to come..

-Christopher

P.S. I'll add that after my breakdown repair I knew a heck of a lot more about my bus than I did previously... and ive put 8000 miles on it since then.. only issue being I tossed an A/C belt on my NYC trip.. but that was my fault for using the cheap-ass belt that came with my A/C kit instead of a good one...
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 04:03 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 115
Not sure who we got ours from , either a dealer, or school yard, but it took us home no problem.

They sold it as is so no way were we getting any money back. We put lots of money in it though and like someone said, have it checked out before you take a long trip.

Sometimes people will tear it up and want money back, not saying that is your situation so its not good sometimes for either party.

We sold our car a few years ago. The man said he wanted to test drive it, well he gunned the hell out of it. Made fast turns,etc. My husband said pull it over NOW! I'm not going to sit here and watch you wreck or tear up my car. He bought the car and never heard from him again. thank goodness.
International is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 04:29 PM   #12
Skoolie
 
Justin McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 160
Year: 1997
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 5.9L Diesel Engine
Rated Cap: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1031A1 View Post
Having been in the government surplus business for 17 years I've learned to do due diligence before going to auctions as well. There are several good places to find out the reputation of various school districts and if they cut corners or not. California has an excellent reputation for throwing away top notch buses at scrap prices at auction. Check them out next time. I found a small school district that has an outstanding reputation with keeping their buses in perfect order. They buy top-of-the-line buses and keep them that way. Well worth the plane fare and road trip in 115* summer heat with no A/C.

Try looking west young man, it seems to pay off for many people.

Just my two cents and almost two decades of surplus experience.......

M
I am curious as to the places you mentioned to check on the school districts reputation. Are there websites?
__________________
Follow our bus blog here -
https://www.wildernesswandering.com/
Justin McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 05:06 PM   #13
Bus Crazy
 
2kool4skool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Spring Valley AZ
Posts: 1,343
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 2 elderly children, 1 cat
Fixed it for you.


• Being in Southern Arizona in summer is like standing on the surface of the sun.

Glad it worked out for you.
__________________
Don, Mary and Spooky the cat.
2kool4skool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:51 PM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,757
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Surprised he was that hot it looks like that nice bus in the pic is air conditioned
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:58 PM   #15
Bus Crazy
 
milkmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
The truly amazing part of this story is that they gave you your money back. Most of these deals are on an "as is" basis and as soon as the money changes hands...you are on your own. Actually a pretty good endorsement for this particular dealer I'd say.
I agree whole heartedly!!!

Also, the dealer put out some bucks for that Roll-Off on a Saturday!
Even if it's their roll-off, they still had to pay somebody something.
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
milkmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 04:06 AM   #16
Almost There
 
CaptainHooligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WNC
Posts: 96
Front engine buses are that loud??

I'm still shopping. Thanks for the info!
CaptainHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 05:33 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHooligan View Post
Front engine buses are that loud??

I'm still shopping. Thanks for the info!
yes they are, flat nose are the worst. my rear engine is quiet, now that i spray foamed the engine cover in my rear engine its silent. i bought mine from a dealer, the mechanic went over everything with me before i left. carolina thomas gets a thumbs up from me.
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:01 AM   #18
Bus Crazy
 
WIbluebird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHooligan View Post
Front engine buses are that loud??

I'm still shopping. Thanks for the info!
I drive flatnose FE buses every day for work, the older ones are LOUD especially if the fan kicks on all the time. The newer 2014+ buses are a lot quieter.

I'd get a pusher if I was going to go skoolie. FE is cheaper but you'll be miserable on long trips because they're hot and loud.
WIbluebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:10 AM   #19
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
There are many good reasons to go FE, too.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:57 AM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin McCormick View Post
I am curious as to the places you mentioned to check on the school districts reputation. Are there websites?

Justin,

Some places are on the web like CrownCoachJunkies, Wanderlodge (BlueBird), and such. I also call the maintenance supervisor and ask about previous auctions, who won, how much, contact information. It's all public record. I'll call the winner, introduce myself as a potential owner of another bus up for auction and ask what their experience has been. Most people are happy to talk about their bus, some hang up.

After 17+ years in the government surplus business I've learned some things about how to tilt the odds to my favor a bit more than most when it comes to bidding on surplus. For example, if I were to need another surplus bus I'd be bidding on another California bus in April/May/June depending upon what's on the market at the time I need to look to place bids.

Hope this helps, but you already have a bus.......

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.