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Old 02-02-2011, 11:55 PM   #1
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Where to mount propane tanks

hello there, I was just wondering if there were any DOT or NFPA regulations on the location of propane tanks on a mh. I have the materials to mount them on the back of the bus above the bumper, or under the bus just in front of the rear wheels, or behind the rear wheels. One way or the other it dosent matter to me, I just need this done right the first time. I have a 66 pass pusher, and I am trying to mount 2 20# lb tanks. thanks for reading this.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:49 AM   #2
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

I have always planed on putting them under the bus just in front of the rear wheel, but the last time i filled my tanks the guy at the propane place said that you cant mount them under there. he said on the back of the bus is fine. this does not make any sense to me. i would think they would be safer under the bus. but then I really dont know the facts, just different oppinions on the matter. thanks for the reply, ill send you a message when i get a solid answer.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:24 AM   #3
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

hey there beardy. I just checked out your bus site and you guys are coming along. my wife is also an organic ( I really dont like using that word, Its like saying hey man we dont put poison in our food... well duhh) Gardner. we did some really cool things with our two 40 gal grey tanks. because of space i had to separate them under the bus, one on eather side, just in front of the rear wheels. that worked out well because one is directly below the kit sink and one below the shower. i plumed them together to act as one tank but put a shut off between them to sepperate them. then i put in a drain on each tank. then i attached a 4 zone timer to my kit sink, shower, and two to the city water supply. ok to make a long story short( to late) my kit tank waters my garden 1 hour a day via soaker hose, and my shower water goes to my washing mach. My septic system uses a 5-gal bucket with dumpvalve into our black tanks.. walla composting toilet. we use organic (aka wont kill you) peat moss as the excellerator. workes well and saved a crap ton of cash. let me know if you want some detals. just want to help out a fellow Gardner.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:24 PM   #4
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

It''s an older edition but it changes very little except for a word here and there.

Quote:
ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 STANDARD ON RECREATIONAL VEHICLES (1999 Edition)

2-2.3 Location of LP-Gas Containers. LP-Gas containers shall be in accordance with the following:

(a) LP-Gas containers shall not be installed nor shall provisions be made for installing or storing any LP-Gas containers, even temporarily, inside any recreational vehicle. Containers shall not be mounted on the exterior of the rear wall or the rear bumper of the vehicle.

Exception: New LP-Gas cylinders that have never contained LP-Gas supplied as original equipment, shall be permitted to be transported inside the vehicle.

(b) LP-Gas containers with their control valves shall be installed in compliance with one of the following:
(1) In a recess or compartment other than the roof that is vaportight to the inside of the recreational vehicle.
(3) Tanks mounted on the chassis or to the floor of a motor home or chassis-mount camper, provided neither the tank or its support is located in front of the front axle. Tanks mounted between the front and rear axle shall be installed with as much road clearance as practical but not lower than the front axle height. Tanks mounted behind the rear axle of a motor home or chassis-mount camper shall be installed in such a manner that the bottom of the tank and any connection thereto shall not be lower than either the rear axle (excluding the differential) or any section of the frame immediately to the rear of the tank, whichever is higher. All clearances shall be determined from the bottom of the tank or from the lowest fitting, support, or attachment on the tank or tank housing, which ever is lower when all axles are loaded to their gross axles weight rating.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:43 PM   #5
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni John
... NFPA 1192 is very clear about LPG...
If you want to build to NFPA specs, then you really need to have your own copy. I have one because everyone on the coach forums kept saying it was needed. There are parts that we will never even consider doing because it is either unsafe, can be done better using newer/current techniques or it can be done better and cheaper if different way. David got a good giggle from the book and more than one part caused him concern. MY concern was the "disclaimer" in the front of the book. Talk about covering your butt!


[quote] From ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 Standard on Recreational Vehicles 1999 Edition

IMPORTANT NOTICE ABOUT THIS DOCUMENT

The RVIA and the NFPA codes, standards, recommended practices, and guides, of which the document contained herein is one, are developed through a consensus standards development process approved by the American National Standards Institute. This process brings together volunteers representing varied view points and interests to achieve consensus on fire and other safety issues. While the RVIA and the NFPA administer the process and establish rules to promote fairness in the development of consensus, they do not independently test, evaluate, or verify the accuracy of any information or the soundness of any judgments contained in their codes and standards.

The RVIA and the NFPA disclaim liability for any personal injury, property or other damages of any nature whatsoever, whether special, indirect, consequential or compensatory, directly or indirectly resulting from the publication, use of, or reliance on this document. The RVIA and NFPA also make no guaranty or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information published herein.

In issuing and making this document available, the RVIA and the NFPA are not undertaking to render professional or other services for or on behalf of any person or entity. Nor are the RVIA and the NFPA undertaking to perform any duty owed by any person or entity to someone else. Anyone using this document should rely on his or her own independent judgment or, as appropriate, seek the advice of a competent professional in determining the exercise of reasonable care in any given circumstances.

The RVIA and the NFPA have no power, nor do they undertake, to police or enforce compliance with the contents of this document. Nor do the RVIA and the NFPA list, certify, test or inspect products, designs, or installations for compliance with this document.
Any certification or other statement of compliance with the requirements of this document shall not be attributable to the RVIA and the NFPA and is solely the responsibility of the certifier or maker of the statement.

The bold parts are to point out the sections that I have problems with. Basically the RV industry makes the rules and they do not have to follow the rules they make. Plus the RV industry can then hide behind the credentials of the RVIA (such as it is) and the NFPA. There is no one to police them except themselves. Kinda like letting the fox guard the hen house.

And NO ONE checks to make sure the things that you are supposed to do are even safe or workable (see the first bolded statement).

Take a good look at the RVIA medallion on the Class C. Looks like the RVIA issued it doesn't it.




As for that little medallion we have attached to our RV... it really means nothing (see part in italics). I could make a little medallion just like it and attach to our bus conversion (I've heard that some of the coach converters have done that). After all, if I say the bus was converted to the standard of the NFPA 1192... that could mean either fully or partially compliant. The responsibility of the statement is mine. There is no one that checks to see if the statement is true. The coach converters checked.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:05 AM   #6
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Not that I am a Code nazi, but I do understand where some of it comes from, and that would be questions of liability.

If something were to go wrong with one's conversion and somone or something was injured in someway, then Code compliance could become a big issue in a legalistic way.

Now, if you're poor enough where you've got not a whole lot to lose, no big deal. But on that other site there are some wealthy dudes, and in their case they need to balance out how much they want to risk the farm.

Anyone doing a conversion has a big liability risk. That being said, I'll do it my way; because to me that is where the enjoyment is.

DESIGN & BUILD!
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:16 AM   #7
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornaschinske
Anyone using this document should rely on his or her own independent judgment or, as appropriate, seek the advice of a competent professional in determining the exercise of reasonable care in any given circumstances.
And there's the indicator that they are full of it. All the "Book" does is give a guideline of how the various RV manufacturers think an RV should be put together. Now David & I are not licensed electricians or plumbers but David has been building houses and condos for 40 years. All his stuff passes inspections. He has even straightened out inspectors on some of the codes and things. But there are things in the "Book" that we won't do. I know there are several RV manufacturers out there that build RV's with solid wire Romex type wiring. We wouldn't do that but we plan on building to last for decades and RV manufacturers do not plan on their stuff lasting one decade.

The "Book" was interesting reading. Some of the info we will use, other stuff we won't because we know a better/easier way to do it. As for the coach folks... they are like us... feeling their way thru how to convert. Only real difference is they start out with more $$ in their shells.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:35 AM   #8
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Curious what folks think. I really don't want my 2 20lb propane tanks under the bus. What I was thinking of doing was putting a box inside in the kitchen area that vents to the outside. This box would have a lid inside so I can get to the tanks from inside, which is important to us for on and off, changing hookups, etc. Lid would need a decent seal to it so when closed and propane is turned on any leaks go out the vented area.

How's that sound? Am I missing anything?
We don't plan on using propane much so they'll be off a lot. We do have a catalytic propane heater but hope not to have to use it often thanks to the woodstove.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:15 PM   #9
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

I would not bring them inside your rig... My experience is things just happen and when possible death is in play, error on the side of safety. Just my two cents. Personally i have no LP for this reason just not comfortable with the risk, that said if you are more power to you.
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #10
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

I wouldn't bring them inside either. I have had an LP tank "vent off" when the tank got warm from the sun. It wasn't pleasant. If you aren't going to use them very often, then why not keep them outside? I like cooking/heating with LP but I an also cautious about it. I like having shutoff valves on the piping even though the 20# tanks have a shutoff valve. I have three shut off valves on my homebrewed extend-a-stay setup.

Look up the NFPA 1192 2-2.6.1 Ventilation of Compartments Containing LP-Gas Cylinders
http://www.propane101.com/index.htm
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/18.htm

I used to have a link to a great website that showed how to build a propane locker but I have since lost it. The NFPA link has the vents required.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:21 PM   #11
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

please dont mount them inside. build a bay under the bus with door outside to get to them , stay between the wheels.
here in ontario you cant mount them on the rear bumper, you have to go under the bus.

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Old 02-05-2011, 08:40 AM   #12
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

My conversion [not my work!] has the horizontal tank inside the rig, under the dinette seat. I suppose I could move it to another area, still inside, seal the interior access and cut an exterior access and vents.

Question...how do they fill a permanently mounted tank. When I fill my tank, I just take it out and they put it on the scales and fill it. How do they judge the amount?

One time they overfilled it, so I left it outside until it quit venting, then cracked the valve for a few seconds just to be sure.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:53 AM   #13
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Okay okay, will put them under Hope to get to a point we won't ever need 'em but that's maybe a good year off after I get the bus. IF I EVER FIND ONE ... *sobs*
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:11 PM   #14
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ob1
My conversion [not my work!] has the horizontal tank inside the rig, under the dinette seat. I suppose I could move it to another area, still inside, seal the interior access and cut an exterior access and vents.

Question...how do they fill a permanently mounted tank. When I fill my tank, I just take it out and they put it on the scales and fill it. How do they judge the amount?
I'm not sure if an LP station will fill your tank if it's inside the living area. No matter how well the locker is sealed and even with vents/access hatches. Ask local station propane dealer about that.

To fill a permanently mounted tank (and why we have had the one on the Class C filled once). You pull the RV up to the propane filling station. You turn everything off (engine, generators, gas appliances). The filling station fills the permanently mounted tank just like they do a big tank.

For full-timing, the permanently mounted tanks are a PITA. We started full-timing again in 2006 (been "camping" since 1979). Our first long term stay (State Park in S GA) was for 3 or 4 months and we had a propane filling station at a convenience store at the entrance to the park we were staying in. We also had several 20# LP tanks and carried two with us (at the time we had 10 20# LP tanks... we are now down to 5). We didn't want to fill the permanent mount tank because we knew what was involved (break camp). We hit every LP fill station, including a dealer to fill our little tanks. $25 was NOT a good price. We ended up going the Home Depot where they had an Amerigas tank swap for $15. Generally we refill the tanks because it's cheaper to refill rather than swap. But we do swap out tanks when one starts getting "bad" looking or when the tank expiration date starts getting close. We do watch the condition and tank date when we swap out. Back when the "old style" POLs were being phased out, we swapped all our little tanks for the new POLs. It was worth the little extra price. We also swap out tanks when the LP filling stations are closed (here they are closed from 5PM on Friday and open the following Monday at 8AM). Currently a tank swap is running about $23. To refill the same size tank cost us $14.98 including tax on Thursday. We will be using 20# LP tanks on the bus (two on an automatic changeover valve plus 1 as an extra tank). We will build another "extend-a-stay" which will allow us to use a 100# tank if we want and to also run our BBQ grill.

FYI: The places that will swap a 30# tank are few and far between. You can refill them but a swap is generally out of the question. So for full-timing/traveling that is not really a good idea unless you are carrying a 20# tank just for that. If you are never going to full-time or "long-time" (a couple months at a time rather than 24/7/365), then it is not really an issue. We were getting tanks filled in the campgrounds in TX. The big bottle trucks drove thru and made deliveries... you just set you tank at the end of your site or flagged them down to fill the permanent tanks). Slightly more than hauling the tank in to fill but only a dollar or so. We didn't have it done because we left NM with a full permanent tank PLUS 2 full 20LB tanks. That fuel lasted us from Nov to June. Electric was cheaper than LP. Word on the RV forums is that this practice is being regulated out. Reasons vary, either city government or insurance reasons have been cited.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:09 PM   #15
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

being able to echange 20 pound tanks was the main reason that Im not mounting a perment tank in my bus, you can go to a walmart on a sunday change ou t your tank if you really had to, that convenice is worth it to me.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #16
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

I ended up getting two 30lb vertical tanks as per the recommendation of the RV dealer down the road. He said the horizontal tanks were a lot more expensive. He showed me how they get mounted on the front of the A-frame for trailers and said I should just make a rack on the back of my bus bumper for the same thing. I guess he didn't think about the rear-end collision issue. At this point I have filled tanks and don't want to waste them to get smaller ones that would fit underneath.

I am thinking in the short term I may opt to create a frame cage of 16g steel to hold the tanks and adequately mount them above the rear bumper. I don't plan on using propane much and will switch to a woodstove come winter, and then for the warmer months probably find some other cooking option (solar oven or campfire?) or see if there is room in front of the rear axle and extend the wheel well into a box-shape with the tanks mounted under there instead.

Can anybody think of other options? Is it dangerous to have the tanks so close to the rear wheels? And just how close is TOO close to the rear wheel? Should I enclose the steel framing with sheet metal? I'm gonna go out right now and see if there COULD be room if I decided to go that route. If I take on that project next year all I'd need to do is remove the lower bed (for access) as I'm putting bunks on top of the wheel well. Maybe it would fit between two floor cross members and I should just move it up a bit toward the front. The two tanks would be pretty obvious, though. I'm not sure if I should just cut out the floor/wall near the stove and put it there, somehow properly enclosing it with sheet metal, etc.

The tanks were actually pulled off a camper where they actually slid underneath and pulled out from the side. I still have the rails and everything.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:35 PM   #17
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Re: Where to mount propane tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ob1
My conversion [not my work!] has the horizontal tank inside the rig, under the dinette seat. I suppose I could move it to another area, still inside, seal the interior access and cut an exterior access and vents.

Question...how do they fill a permanently mounted tank. When I fill my tank, I just take it out and they put it on the scales and fill it. How do they judge the amount?

One time they overfilled it, so I left it outside until it quit venting, then cracked the valve for a few seconds just to be sure.
they make high pressure hoses, and fittings for remote fill applications, go to a propane dealer for help. I purchased all my stuff for that online.
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:47 AM   #18
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Thanks for all the good info on Propane tanks, was about to buy a permanent 12 gallon horizontal for $300 when I have three #20 tanks already- Skoolie net is a great resource. Now to make the decision about where to place between front and rear axel positions and how to mount/protect.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco polo View Post
Thanks for all the good info on Propane tanks, was about to buy a permanent 12 gallon horizontal for $300 when I have three #20 tanks already- Skoolie net is a great resource. Now to make the decision about where to place between front and rear axel positions and how to mount/protect.
wow talk about a old thread , build a storage compartment under the bus with your 2 20lb tanks, much easer to get refilled,
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #20
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Ive been reading through the propane threads and surprised how unclear the recommendations are.

Can someone explain how mounting two tanks in the under-storage compartment of my bus (using something like this would need to be "vented"

The under-storage is pretty water tight so adding holes seems counter intuitive.

I'm also planning on putting my battery bank down there on a slide out. These can be far apart as the under-storage is nearly 10' wide and runs the whole width of the bus.
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