Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-30-2017, 06:02 AM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 287
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466e
Woodfiber insulation

Anyone use it on their conversion? A guy on a youtube vid doing a conversion and he mentioned that it was better than the typical insulation in many ways including 100% wood and being able to resist fire up to 28 times longer. Ive never heard of this kind of insulation. How about you guys?
adic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 06:25 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,861
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Well, I'd avoid using anything organic. That stuff sounds like its very delicate, and its made of wood fibers, wax, glue, and latex.
Its really hard to beat closed cell foam for this job.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 10:11 AM   #3
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
What ECCB said. Closed cell. You do NOT want anything that can trap or wick moisture.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 03:52 AM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 287
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466e
Loud and clear. Thanks guys
adic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 12:09 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
You do NOT want anything that can trap or wick moisture.
At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.
Tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 12:17 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.
There are several methods of insulating a bus, or RV, that are accepted and that work.

For anything new to be given serious consideration it has to offer a significant advantage, or remove one of the traditional problems.

If it doesn't do that then you are simply stepping into the unknown based on little more than the manufacturer's claims.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 02:06 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Claims are that wood fibre insulation is a twenty year old technology in Europe. It's made from waste wood products from the timber industry as well as from manufacturing waste. It does not make sense for this product to be so expensive. Particle board isn't that expensive.

I can't find any complaints about this product at all, which to me means complaints are either being stiffled or this is simply the most wonderful product ever. This is a completely compostable product by their claims, which is enough to scare me away.

Comparing buses and stick built homes is like comparing apples and pineapples. Buses condensate on the inside because of the metal skin. Any insulation that allows the humidity to reach the outer skin will allow condensation, which is why so many of us have ponied up for spray foam. Houses don't condensate inside the walls.

I'd bet on this insulation showing signs of degradation after the first year in a bus, specifically due to moisture issues. Anybody want to pony up for the wood fibre insulation, then take it out next spring to check?
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 03:45 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,861
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.
Once the wax and stuff breaks down you basically have soggy wood mess in the walls.
Moisture isn't the same concern in a house as it is in a steel can.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:04 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Once the wax and stuff breaks down you basically have soggy wood mess in the walls.
Moisture isn't the same concern in a house as it is in a steel can.
That's pretty good to know. Can I ask how much research you've done? Pictures?
Tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:17 PM   #10
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,861
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
That's pretty good to know. Can I ask how much research you've done? Pictures?
Simple logic, man.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:22 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Simple logic, man.
I think Tedd is going to stick to his point, whatever others say.

If it's made of cellulose, and kept in a tin, eventually something is going to eat it.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:23 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,861
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:27 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.
I'm sure. I wasn't criticizing.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:52 PM   #14
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
I think Tedd is going to stick to his point, whatever others say.
... and just what is my point?

Could my point be that maybe wood fiber insulation (or any other new idea for that matter) is something to look at and worth more than a knee-jerk dismissal without any facts, without any research not even a quick search on the internet?

Naahhh ... that couldn't be it.

I raced sports cars for about 12 years a long time ago. Built my own cars. I wish I had a nickle for ever time I heard a garage "expert" dismiss something new and untried ... installing a panhard rod on my MGB for example, only to beat the crap outta that that guy on the track the next time we raced.

Yeah ... it's a sore point with me.

I guess around here I'll just avoid threads having to do with insulation.
Tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 04:56 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
... and just what is my point?

Could my point be that maybe wood fiber insulation (or any other new idea for that matter) is something to look at and worth more than a knee-jerk dismissal without any facts, without any research not even a quick search on the internet?

Naahhh ... that couldn't be it.
Then go for it. Do your bus and let us know in a few years. The problem here is that you have been equally dismissive of very reasonable concerns raised.

I'm done with this now.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 05:00 PM   #16
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.
Back attcha!
Tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 05:01 PM   #17
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post

I'm done with this now.
OK with me.

Anybody remember the name of that other insulation expert ... the one that got banned? He had the most annoying habit of injecting himself into EVERY thread and objecting to everything anybody was doing. Every Thread.

It was a fine day indeed when he was sounding off about bus grounding and Mike Sokol appeared from nowhere and him in his place.

What the heck was that guys name??? He really made this web forum a very nasty place.

ECCB ... you remember that guy ... what was his name?
Tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 06:05 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I'm jealous of Tedd's hair. I don't know him well yet, but I know he's a patient man.

Actually I did an internet search because I didn't know specifically about this product. I do have intimate knowledge about trees and wood fibre as that is common industrial knowledge here in Oregon. I'm not against new technology either, but if a product is more expensive doing the same job as a proven product people tend to go with the familiar.

Wood fibre degrades over time, and consider that's if it doesn't repeatedly get wet. It's waxed and painted in an apparent effort to keep oxygen away from the fibre. It costs more and it's an unproven product. I would like to know if it actually lasts, but considering it's supposed to be a 20 year old technology from Europe there should be more information available online but there's not. Mostly there's just product information.

What's bothering me is the lack of information available on this 20 year old product line. I remain neutral until about 20 years from now when I'll make my decision.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 06:15 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,861
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
One insulation that's good for interior walls is called Roxul. Good stuff.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 06:49 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I'm sure not an insulation expert. It just seems logical that if we're experiencing condensation with the OEM rockwool insulation, that another fiberous material would perform similarly by not stopping air and humidity from circulating allowing condensation. Also most of us are aware of the buildup of dust deposits, within the rockwool insulation, that can and do mold with the right amount of moisture.

Bus insulation needs to be something that eliminates air and humidity from contacting the interior metal skin surfaces of the bus. I don't believe another fiberous material would work any better than OEM insulation at stopping humidity from contacting the interior skin surfaces.

I had condensation that dripped through my perforated ceiling panels the first winter.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×