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Old 04-03-2019, 08:30 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 347
Year: 1999
Coachwork: American Cargo 14'L x 7'8"W x 7'H Box
Chassis: Ford E350 Cutaway
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 11500 lbs
natapotts, look at this as a good opportunity to learn how to service your bus. If you understand the beast and know about its care and feeding, you will have a whole lot more relaxed time when you are travelling far from home.

First and foremost, a diesel engine needs the right amount of the right oil with less than 5000 (some prefer 3000) miles of use. The engine oil will accumulate over time carbon particles and other combustion by-products that make it past the piston rings. Since that oil not only lubricates your engine but also powers the injectors with their tiny, very tightly fitting parts it is crucial to get the accumulated gunk out of the engine in due time.

So, the first order of business is to change the engine oil and oil filter. Drain the old oil and send a sample out for analysis to find out whether you have dilution/contamination issues and to establish a base line for the future life of the engine. Refill (do not over-fill) only with a quality oil that is rated for diesel engines with at least a CH-4 rating or better with the higher ratings like CI-4, CJ-4, or CK-4. Something like Shell Rotella T or Mobil Delvac 1300 will do the job. Reputable truck parts shops often carry "white label" 5 gallon pails of diesel engine oil that have the sufficient specs. (I do not see much merit in synthetic oils for the relatively short duration between changes with a conventional filtration system. OTR rigs with a specialized ultra-filtration systems is a different story but in our buses we gunk the oil up before we are anywhere near to wearing it out.)

If you still get low oil pressure indications after changing the oil to a known quantity of the correct stuff, its time to measure the oil pressure directly with an analog oil pressure gauge. This is as simple as buying the gauge with a hose and the right fitting and finding a place where you can connect it to the engine's lubricating oil galleries. We will help you there if it comes to that.

Now, if the engine lubrication system is happy, we can move on to the high pressure oil system driving the injectors. But before I dig into this I would put some Stanadyne Performance Formula Diesel Fuel Additive or similar diesel lubricity enhancer into the tank and see what that does. I had several sticky injectors on my T444E and the additive cleaned that up in minutes. The HEUI injectors have tiny check balls in them to pump the diesel into the spray nozzle and after running a couple hundred gallons of ultra low sulfur diesel in it, these balls can act up and cause the injectors not to fire. I generally do not believe in automotive snake oils but the Stanadyne diesel fuel additive had a noticeably positive influence on the smoothness and cold start ability of the diesel engines I own (IH T444E / Ford 7.3L PS, MB OM352, GM 6.2L) even when used only on every second or third fill-up.

If the engine still runs crappy after changing the oil and treating the fuel we will walk you through the troubleshooting of the high pressure oil system. No rocket science here, just a pump, a valve, and a couple of sensors.

Last step would be to pull the injectors and service them. You can even do this yourself with a modest mechanical aptitude and a strong sense of cleanliness but there are many sources for rebuilt injectors that will take your old ones as cores after you swap them. Fortunately, on an IH dog nose chassis access to the injectors is easy. (It is a total bear of a job in a Ford E-Series van). That would also be a good time to check/replace the glow plugs and treat the engine to a new under-the-valve-cover-harness.

In short, there is no need to sell a partially converted bus -most likely at a loss- unless you have a connecting rod hanging out of the block or lost compression on one or several cylinders. What I outlined above is the majority of the work you need to keep the engine running for hundred thousands of miles. There maybe a turbo rebuild necessary at some point and some work on the cooling system but compared to the newer-tier engines a T444E is relatively simple to keep happily running with DIY maintenance.

Please post some picture of your dashboard including the area around the ignition key. You should have a button that will allow you to get the error codes from the ECU without having to hook up a scanner. (That's one thing I love on the T444E vs the 7.3L PS)

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Old 04-03-2019, 09:03 PM   #22
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
Year: 2005
Chassis: Thomas
Hi Alpine

Thank you for taking the time to write out such a thorough response. I am more than willing to take the time to learn how to service my bus- but currently do not have a shop that is willing to lend space, a mechanic who is willing to work with me, or even a driveway to park the bus in while I work on it. The space that I am converting the bus in will not let me park there if the engine isn't running. Not to mention the bus is 50+ miles away from home and I can't afford the cost of a tow on top of the fix.

As I mentioned in my original post, the first thing we did when we got to Oregon was change the oil and fluids. We also had the oil filter changed. I have learned tough lessons in the past about engine maintenance and I understand why this is important. We had an oil sample taken and since haven't heard back about the result- I soon learned that the shop went out of business. There is always a possibility of taking a new oil sample- but it will only give us about 60 miles worth of information.

I have had some long conversations with the mechanic that diagnosed the bus that go much more in depth on what is happening that I did not share here- which is why this thread is in classifieds rather than mechanical forum. I would be happy to share everything with anyone that is interested in buying the bus. It is clear that this is a doable fix by anyone with a mechanic's knowledge. I mentioned in my original post that I just can't give it the time and money that it needs right now, and I'm still looking for someone that would be interested in buying the bus and getting it back up to speed.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:10 AM   #23
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,755
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine44 View Post
natapotts, look at this as a good opportunity to learn how to service your bus. If you understand the beast and know about its care and feeding, you will have a whole lot more relaxed time when you are travelling far from home.

First and foremost, a diesel engine needs the right amount of the right oil with less than 5000 (some prefer 3000) miles of use. The engine oil will accumulate over time carbon particles and other combustion by-products that make it past the piston rings. Since that oil not only lubricates your engine but also powers the injectors with their tiny, very tightly fitting parts it is crucial to get the accumulated gunk out of the engine in due time.

So, the first order of business is to change the engine oil and oil filter. Drain the old oil and send a sample out for analysis to find out whether you have dilution/contamination issues and to establish a base line for the future life of the engine. Refill (do not over-fill) only with a quality oil that is rated for diesel engines with at least a CH-4 rating or better with the higher ratings like CI-4, CJ-4, or CK-4. Something like Shell Rotella T or Mobil Delvac 1300 will do the job. Reputable truck parts shops often carry "white label" 5 gallon pails of diesel engine oil that have the sufficient specs. (I do not see much merit in synthetic oils for the relatively short duration between changes with a conventional filtration system. OTR rigs with a specialized ultra-filtration systems is a different story but in our buses we gunk the oil up before we are anywhere near to wearing it out.)

If you still get low oil pressure indications after changing the oil to a known quantity of the correct stuff, its time to measure the oil pressure directly with an analog oil pressure gauge. This is as simple as buying the gauge with a hose and the right fitting and finding a place where you can connect it to the engine's lubricating oil galleries. We will help you there if it comes to that.

Now, if the engine lubrication system is happy, we can move on to the high pressure oil system driving the injectors. But before I dig into this I would put some Stanadyne Performance Formula Diesel Fuel Additive or similar diesel lubricity enhancer into the tank and see what that does. I had several sticky injectors on my T444E and the additive cleaned that up in minutes. The HEUI injectors have tiny check balls in them to pump the diesel into the spray nozzle and after running a couple hundred gallons of ultra low sulfur diesel in it, these balls can act up and cause the injectors not to fire. I generally do not believe in automotive snake oils but the Stanadyne diesel fuel additive had a noticeably positive influence on the smoothness and cold start ability of the diesel engines I own (IH T444E / Ford 7.3L PS, MB OM352, GM 6.2L) even when used only on every second or third fill-up.

If the engine still runs crappy after changing the oil and treating the fuel we will walk you through the troubleshooting of the high pressure oil system. No rocket science here, just a pump, a valve, and a couple of sensors.

Last step would be to pull the injectors and service them. You can even do this yourself with a modest mechanical aptitude and a strong sense of cleanliness but there are many sources for rebuilt injectors that will take your old ones as cores after you swap them. Fortunately, on an IH dog nose chassis access to the injectors is easy. (It is a total bear of a job in a Ford E-Series van). That would also be a good time to check/replace the glow plugs and treat the engine to a new under-the-valve-cover-harness.

In short, there is no need to sell a partially converted bus -most likely at a loss- unless you have a connecting rod hanging out of the block or lost compression on one or several cylinders. What I outlined above is the majority of the work you need to keep the engine running for hundred thousands of miles. There maybe a turbo rebuild necessary at some point and some work on the cooling system but compared to the newer-tier engines a T444E is relatively simple to keep happily running with DIY maintenance.

Please post some picture of your dashboard including the area around the ignition key. You should have a button that will allow you to get the error codes from the ECU without having to hook up a scanner. (That's one thing I love on the T444E vs the 7.3L PS)

this a SUPER POST!!!



great stuff... sounds like the OP doesnt have the facilities to work on it but this is a good thread to save for anyone who does want to fix their 444E/466E..



im interested to know which Standyne product you used.. I use Power service Diesel Kleen every couple tankfuls.. but im not sure its a lubricator?



one thing about my 444E is that its driveability and specifically its cold-manners GREATLY improved when I swapped out my 1999 computer for a 2004 computer..



even updating the software in my 1999 computer to the latest calibration and latest firmware navistar had on file didnt make it run like it does now..



-Christopher
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:36 PM   #24
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 347
Year: 1999
Coachwork: American Cargo 14'L x 7'8"W x 7'H Box
Chassis: Ford E350 Cutaway
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 11500 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
this a SUPER POST!!!



great stuff... sounds like the OP doesnt have the facilities to work on it but this is a good thread to save for anyone who does want to fix their 444E/466E..



im interested to know which Standyne product you used.. I use Power service Diesel Kleen every couple tankfuls.. but im not sure its a lubricator?



one thing about my 444E is that its driveability and specifically its cold-manners GREATLY improved when I swapped out my 1999 computer for a 2004 computer..



even updating the software in my 1999 computer to the latest calibration and latest firmware navistar had on file didnt make it run like it does now..



-Christopher
Thanks for the praise but I forgot to suggest also going over the fuel bowl before tearing into the injection system.

I used the Power Service Fuel Supplement when I had the sticky injectors because that's what the next truck stop had on the shelf.

After reading this article I decided to go with the Stanadyne Lubricity Formula since our local Rural King carries it and it was also highly recommended by Dakota Diesel Service in Sioux Falls, SD who helped me with some serious issues that turned out to be caused by contaminated diesel. These guys service any pump/system ever devised by man and have an impressive array of calibration stands and experts. They are located right next to Van Haags truck parts in Sioux Falls, which is another treasure trove for folks like us.

Living now in NC, I recently found an International shop run by some young guys who were very amenable to reprogramming the T444E in my IH 4700 box truck. I want to get rid of the annoying idle time out and the 70 mph speed limiter. Should I first get a newer ECU or can my 2000 ECU be flashed with the latest, "civilized" firmware?
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Old 04-05-2019, 02:15 PM   #25
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,755
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
That computer will likely have a newer calibration available and it will probably make the bus run better esp in cold weather.. my 04 ECM improved my cold drive ability even more.. in my case my main reason for doing it was the transmission to engine integration. My way of looking at it is if everything works right then I say reflash the existing computer and don’t swap it.
Christopher
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Old 04-06-2019, 05:14 PM   #26
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11
Coachwork: Still Looking
Chassis: Eventually a short bus
Engine: Diesel
For $150 you can get AAA of Oregon and get a 100 mile tow or a once a year 200 mile tow for the cost of the membership. Then I’d probably put an ad in Craigslist for someplace to park it & not pay an arm or a leg. Or find a retired couple who would like a bit of extra income and have someplace you can park it.
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:50 PM   #27
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 36
How much to just have the injectors rebuilt at a fuel pump shop? You could r/i them yourself. I seriously doubt your turbo is bad too
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