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Old 11-23-2007, 04:13 PM   #21
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Re: 87 bluebird

What a cool bus! There are so many systems to wrap my brain around. For instance, The radiator fan, it's a hydraulically driven motor. How crazy is that.

Figuring out the in/outs of the 47 different air systems (i don't know if there are really 47, but it's a good number) will keep me busy for a while. The front air door, and the kneeling feature along with the air ride all are in need of adjustment. She has all new air bags, and air ride control valves.

there are one of these guys at each wheel. it's a ride height control valve. They look super easy to adjust. It's below freezing, and i need to drive the bus up on blocks so i can access the valves....



The bus did come with a box filled with blueprints of nearly every system on the bus, and a Detroit diesel parts catalog..those are handy.

It'll take me a while to get all the stock systems working correctly before i even start the conversion. It'll be worth it though, it's gonna make a super nice limo bus.
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:23 AM   #22
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Re: 87 bluebird

here's the e-mail conversation we've been having so far.....

lapeer20m wrote:

i wasn't able to get the bus to go much faster than 55 or 60 mph on flat ground. Is there a button or lever to engage overdrive, or is there something else i'm missing?

thanks

jason


he responded:
I wish that you would have called me and told me this immediately as I was up until 6:00 am the night that you left. There is a extremely good chance that you did not have it in top gear. The night that you picked it up I had it up to an indicated 60 on the frontage road without a problem and I still had plenty of pedal left. The shift lever is a little quirky and it can look like it is in drive but it is not. When it is actually in drive the indicator almost indicates neutral. The shift linkage is a super long and it is in need of adjustment to remove the slop. All you have to do is shift into drive until it engages a gear, then push the lever up slightly towards the neutral (you will feel the lever very softly click into the next position) and it will be in top gear. I believe that what happens is that since the shift linkage is so long and in need of adjustment that the linkage acts like a spring, and since the first detent to shift out of neutral is stiffer than the other detents between the individual gears, the springiness in the linkage causes it to overshoot the top gear detent and instead goes to the next gear down. It will absolutely cruise an indicated 55 or 60 on the speedo with absolutely no problem and if you keep your foot planted to the floor it will go up to an indicated 70+ on the flats. When I was traveling at an indicated 70 I was typically going faster than traffic speed in the fast lane. I believe it was probably actually doing 80+. Try what I have said and I am confident that messing with the shift lever will resolve your problem. If this does not get you up to speed then check the air filter and fuel filter as I have never changed them and the motor may simply be gasping for more air or more fuel do to a clogged air filter or fuel filter. Since it is very warm where I am and very cold where you are the cold temperature severely thickens diesel oil which would also make it much more sensitive to a partially obstructed fuel filter. The fuel filters are the two orange filters that you see as soon as you lift up the engine cover. Contact me if I can be of further assistance and email me the link to your last bus please. Thanks Diego

i responded ,,,,,,,,,,,,

I took the bus out for a cruise today to try and get it to go faster. I played with the shift lever like you had stated. I not only pushed up on the shift lever until it stopped, i also picked up on the collar that is supposed to prevent the transmission from going into neutral and moved the shift lever up in small increments until i hit neutral. I am confident the transmission is in top gear. The bus will still not drive much faster than 60 mph as indicated on the speedo.


I researched the mtb647 transmission today and found that it is a 4 speed trans with a final drive of 1:1 and also has lock up torque converter. I used an online speed calculator and here is what i came up with:

rear end ratio: 4.56
trans final gear ratio: 1:1
Max engine rpm: 2350
Tire height: 43 inches (41.297)

that makes the max speed 63.34 mph.

unless there is something that i missed, it is a physical impossibility to drive the bus at 70 or 75 mph even down a steep downgrade.

According to the ebay ad, i was bidding on a vehicle that was capable of 80-85 mph and could get over 10 mpg @ 60 mph.

In reality i have a vehicle that can barely drive 60 mph and gets around 5.5 mpg.

--jason
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:46 AM   #23
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Re: 87 bluebird

somebody step in something? i think i smell bullshit.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:03 AM   #24
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Re: 87 bluebird

I would threaten legal action or a partial refund. It sucks you were taken as a fool.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:38 AM   #25
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Re: 87 bluebird

I see a Judge Judy appearance in your future.

Here's a great Judge Judy ebay case...

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Old 11-25-2007, 01:30 PM   #26
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Re: 87 bluebird

I would only threaten legal action as a last resort. You can't sue him in your state, you would have to go to his. I would try to work it out with the seller first. Then go to ebay. They may be able to help you. But I do agree...

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Old 11-25-2007, 06:16 PM   #27
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Re: 87 bluebird

i'm currently unemployed, i don't have any issues with going to arizona for a week or two....I could use some sun.

i am going to try to work it out with the seller first.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:24 PM   #28
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Re: 87 bluebird

more e-mails........

i wrote:
we can argue math equations using different variables all day long and not come to a conclusion. Perhaps an independant 3rd party is needed. I can take the bus to a truck repair shop and have them verify that the transmission is in fact shifting into top gear, then allow them to drive the bus on the expressway for as long as they feel is necessary to make an official report on the buses top crusing speed.
here is the quote from your ebay ad
"Q: Is the top cruising speed 60 as stated, and if so what engine rpm at 60 (if you remember) Also height interior floor to center ceiling feet and inches Thanks Jim Nov-08-07
A: No. I went an indicated 60 however I had it up to 70 for periods. In addition I believe that the speedometer is in error due to the larger than stock tires. When the speedo indicated 65 I was typically going the same speed as other freeway traffic which usually moves 75 to 80. So it is capable of an indicated 70 which I believe is an actual speed of 80 to 85."


He responded:
Jason, there is no argument about math it is imperial knowledge. The equations I used in my response are nothing more than grade school level geometry that can be referenced in any kids math book and the figures that I entered were provided by you in your email. You are welcome to have an independent 3rd party give you an opinion about whatever you want related to the bus however another persons opinion does not change the facts. I am sorry that you are unhappy but I was 100% honest and 100% forthright in my eBay add and all of my responses. I also offered every opportunity for somebody to have the bus inspected prior to purchase. I also displayed more pictures and pointed out more flaws than any other eBay bus add. I also very clearly stated that the bus was sold as-is no warranties. I did all of these things in an effort that the bus be represented as fully and completely as possible and that potential bidders have the opportunity to fully inspect the bus prior to bidding in order to avoid any conflicts. In addition I never stated that the bus could go 85 in the auction or answer to questions. I stated that it went an indicated 70 but that I believed I was going faster than 70 because I believed that the tires were larger than stock. It was simply an opinion based on my impressions from driving the bus however I provided no factual basis for my opinion nor any statements. If this one anecdotal response was what you were going to base your entire purchase than you should have at the very least asked a question as to why I believed that I was traveling faster. I would have responded to your question quickly and to the best of my ability and this whole situation might have been avoided. The Bluebird is not only the first diesel bus that I have ever owned but in fact the first diesel bus that I have ever driven so I have no other reference from which to judge the feeling of speed. I was 100% honest in all of my responses and 100% forthright in my eBay add and all of my responses. The thing that gets me the most about this whole situation is that I really really like that bus and I wish that limited time and limited finances did not force me to sell it. Its almost like I am being punished twice. Once by having to sell of a bus that I really like and would have preferred to keep. Once by having another human being upset with me.

Diego




i wrote:
You also mention in the ad that the bus has larger than stock tires. This also is not true. There is a placard from the factory inside the bus near the driver which indicates tire size is 11r22.5 which are the exact same size tires that are currently on the vehicle.

here is the quote from your ebay ad
"Q: Is the top cruising speed 60 as stated, and if so what engine rpm at 60 (if you remember) Also height interior floor to center ceiling feet and inches Thanks Jim Nov-08-07
A: No. I went an indicated 60 however I had it up to 70 for periods. In addition I believe that the speedometer is in error due to the larger than stock tires. When the speedo indicated 65 I was typically going the same speed as other freeway traffic which usually moves 75 to 80. So it is capable of an indicated 70 which I believe is an actual speed of 80 to 85."

he responded:

In the add I indicated that I believed that the tires were larger than stock, and I still do. The only other busses that I have ever seen exactly like this one in real life are owned by the University of Arizona here in town and I measured the sidewall profile height and it was approximately 7.5 inches. The placard on the bus indicates 11r22.5 however I was and still am under the impression that the 11 refers to the tire width not profile height. I do not know which is correct however if you look at the numbers stamped on any wheel you will see that it usually gives the diameter of the wheel and the width of the wheel not the profile of the tire that is supposed to go on it. I was and still am under the impression that the placard is supposed to indicate the wheel diameter and the tire width however I do not know for a fact which is correct and could certainly be wrong.

i responded....

You did state in the ad that :the bus would cruise 70 mph as indicated by the speedo." It is physically impossible for the bus to cruise at that speed. You also stated in e-mail that the bus would "cruise 70+ on the flats"
I measured the tires and they are just shy of 41.5 inches. I found this webiste from bridgestone:

http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us ... pecs.asp#5

which indicates diameter of 11r22.5 tires to be 41.3 inches.

There are plenty of things you neglected to mention in the ad, like broken windshield wipers, faulty fuel gauge, air that leaks at a dangerous rate making the air compressor run almost non-stop, auto-leveling air ride that is out of adjustment, kneeling feature that doesn't work properly, etc etc. I am not making an issue out of those things because they were not mentioned in the ad. However, you expressly mentioned that the bus would cruise 70 when the bus in reality cruises about 58, a world of difference on the highway!
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:20 PM   #29
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Re: 87 bluebird

jason,

there was one HUGE lie/exageration that he made that you need to call him on. He claimed DOUBLE the actual fuel mileage. All the other stuff about top speed is kinda fuzzy and afterall, it's a fuggin' bus! it ain't 'sposed to go fast.

beat him up some more on the ridiculous mileage claims.

good luck.

btw, you shoulda went after wanderer's no windows from the factory bus. it has the cummins 5.9 which actually can get 11 mpg. i doubt theres one of those old DD 2 strokes that can get anywhere close to it.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:41 PM   #30
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Re: 87 bluebird

I wrote:

You did not state that you believe the tires to be larger than stock. Here is the exact quote: "In addition I believe that the speedometer is in error due to the larger than stock tires." That phrase indicates that the tires are larger than stock and you believe the larger than stock tires are the reason the speedometer is in error.

I can post a photo of the large placard on the interior that indicates the stock tire size is 11r22.5 which are the size tires on the vehicle.

The tires are not larger than stock.
You did not drive the bus at or above 70 mph This vehicle is not capable of those speeds.

What i purchased on ebay is NOT what was advertised and I have the indisputable evidence here in front of me to prove my case. An ebay ad is a legal contract. I am requesting a partial refund of $1,500.00 or I am going to pursue legal action.
This amount will only cover about half the cost of a ring/pinion swap to allow the bus to travel at speeds as stated in the ad.
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