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04-21-2016, 03:58 PM
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#21
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Valley - Arizona
Posts: 644
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freight-shaker (Freightliner)
Engine: Cat 3126b 250 HP
Rated Cap: Only 1 seat
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Wonder if my 643 can have one added??? That sounds like a great breaking. Is your bus a 40'? Just curious about size and what not. Do you know the make/model of your retarder?
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04-21-2016, 06:50 PM
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#22
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docsgsxr
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A REAL Jake replaces the cylinder head and other stuff and will set you back way more than just an exhaust brake.
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04-21-2016, 07:48 PM
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#23
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
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That Telma electromagnetic driveline retarder is cool! Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to retrofit onto an existing vehicle. Probably costly though. On some offroad vehicles (rock crawlers) they add a brake disk to the driveshaft and mount the caliper on a bracket. They use it to hold the vehicle in place while negotiating difficult climbs. I don't think it would work for high speeds though, would probably tear the driveshaft out of the vehicle or overheat severely.
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04-21-2016, 09:13 PM
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#24
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Valley - Arizona
Posts: 644
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freight-shaker (Freightliner)
Engine: Cat 3126b 250 HP
Rated Cap: Only 1 seat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
A REAL Jake replaces the cylinder head and other stuff and will set you back way more than just an exhaust brake.
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I called Pacbrake and they have the same kit, get this, for 1400 bucks! Who would have thought Cat would be cheaper than an aftermarket company?!?
But I have the part numbers from Cat when i order it. I'm thinking, maybe in the fall......
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04-21-2016, 10:18 PM
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
A REAL Jake replaces the cylinder head and other stuff and will set you back way more than just an exhaust brake.
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This. Jakes with probably cost more than you paid for your bus.
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04-23-2016, 09:48 AM
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#26
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast kid
Posts: 142
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 66
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How crucial is it to have one of these alternate braking systems, though? Prerequisite, if driving through the mountains? It seems that there are lots of folks here without them and I find it hard to believe that they would be avoiding all mountains and hills during their travels.
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04-23-2016, 10:21 AM
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#27
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Jakes & retarders just take the "thrill" out of steep downhill driving!
But seriously...they are a real comfort and do save a lot of wear & tear your primary brakes. As for being a "necessity"...well, probably not...if you are a highly experienced driver of heavyweight vehicles in such conditions.
I can tell you that there are a number of otherwise beautiful mountain roads I would consciously avoid without them or at the very least, a fully locking tranny and a solid emergency brake. While I have no plans on tackling Black Bear Pass in my skoolie, I would like to get onto any number of the gorgeous paved roads in the area without too much white-knuckling or having to use the runaway truck ramps on a regular basis.
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04-23-2016, 10:38 AM
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#28
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast kid
Posts: 142
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Jakes & retarders just take the "thrill" out of steep downhill driving!
But seriously...they are a real comfort and do save a lot of wear & tear your primary brakes. As for being a "necessity"...well, probably not...if you are a highly experienced driver of heavyweight vehicles in such conditions.
I can tell you that there are a number of otherwise beautiful mountain roads I would consciously avoid without them or at the very least, a fully locking tranny and a solid emergency brake. While I have no plans on tackling Black Bear Pass in my skoolie, I would like to get onto any number of the gorgeous paved roads in the area without too much white-knuckling or having to use the runaway truck ramps on a regular basis.
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...and we are NOT highly experienced. Granted, we will likely be sticking with a short/midsized bus. However, would a basic exhaust brake do the trick? I'm trying to figure the best way to satisfy this precaution because it seems to be the biggest obstacle to us finding our bus (as we are still in shopping mode and on a rather light budget).
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04-23-2016, 10:42 AM
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#29
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,356
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
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Tango is absolutely correct!!
i have the AT545 non lockup transmission and it the most exciting transmission on a long down hill. you have to rely on going slow and your service brake. the engine/transmission won't hold you back, making an exciting ride.
i wouldn't worry if i had any other transmission other than the AT545. the others 643, 3060,...et al, let you ride a low gear down a hill.
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04-23-2016, 10:51 AM
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#30
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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My 643 did ok when I went down Monteagle in TN, but the REAL mountains out west... I'd want a retarder.
You can get around having one, but we are talking about planning ahead here.
This is nothing compared to the Rockies!
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04-23-2016, 11:00 AM
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#31
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
My 643 did ok when I went down Monteagle in TN, but the REAL mountains out west... I'd want a retarder.
You can get around having one, but we are talking about planning ahead here.
This is nothing compared to the Rockies!
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it sounds like it ran nice N smooth.. what did you do take it down to 3rd gear?
I was out in utah this week for work and noticed almost ALL the school bus in the town south of SLC where i was were thomas and bluebird RE's (big long ones) and it sounded like they had Jake brakes.. now mind you I dont know the differenct between a retarder and a jake brake but it sounded loud like what the semis have...
-Christopher
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04-23-2016, 11:08 AM
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#32
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
it sounds like it ran nice N smooth.. what did you do take it down to 3rd gear?
I was out in utah this week for work and noticed almost ALL the school bus in the town south of SLC where i was were thomas and bluebird RE's (big long ones) and it sounded like they had Jake brakes.. now mind you I dont know the differenct between a retarder and a jake brake but it sounded loud like what the semis have...
-Christopher
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I just put it in "3".
I doubt school buses have jakes. They're expensive. But the schools out west get a lot more funding than our third world schools in FL.
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04-23-2016, 11:10 AM
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#33
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I just put it in "3".
I doubt school buses have jakes. They're expensive. But the schools out west get a lot more funding than our third world schools in FL.
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they also have real mountains to go up and down on regular school routes every day... whats the difference between a retarder and a jake?
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04-24-2016, 08:18 PM
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#35
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Almost There
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 89
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Rated Cap: 78 passenger
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Here's where I got mine. This sale is tomorrow, so no short notice or anything.
Scroll down. First bus is a front engine 5.9 24v, but I believe the rest are 8.3 Cummins engines with retarders. Some are ADA equipped, a couple aren't.
Good luck!
Roller and Associates, Inc.
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