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Old 04-14-2016, 09:29 AM   #1
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Question Best outlet for a mountain bus?

Hey everybody!

Still in the shopping phase here and wanting to see what y'all think about where to find a decent mountain bus. We'd like to find something with highway gears that can handle the inclines and declines (drivetrain retarder?). I understand it's best to look out West, but do you know of specific sellers or bus yards? Also, what is a reasonable price to expect when shopping these features? We just want something sturdy that won't threaten our lives if we take to the hills. Midsized buses (6-7 Windows) are what we've been looking at for our spacial needs and headroom would be a plus for me (I'm 6'1"). Anyway, your knowledge is always appreciated!

Ryan

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Old 04-14-2016, 09:38 AM   #2
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EC always says that Colorado buses have retarders.
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Old 04-14-2016, 12:32 PM   #3
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Do you look on Public Surplus or SearchTempest?
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Old 04-14-2016, 03:12 PM   #4
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EC always says that Colorado buses have retarders.
Yup. If they were purchased by or for a red state school district, they are required to have one. Plus they usually have the gearing and HP to better handle grades.
On average, CO buses seem to run a few extra dollars to buy, but their climate is arid and their buses seem to hold up pretty well most of the time.
I'd take a Colorado bus over three FL buses.
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Old 04-14-2016, 03:29 PM   #5
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It would be cheaper too, wouldn't it? Even broken buses go for high prices if FL.
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Old 04-14-2016, 03:59 PM   #6
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It would be cheaper too, wouldn't it? Even broken buses go for high prices if FL.
Probably.
FL isn't cheap for buying thats for sure. I'd pay 2x as much for a CO bus though.
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Old 04-14-2016, 10:05 PM   #7
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I have looked at PublicSurplus, but it seems pretty difficult (most of the time) to tell what you're getting. I'll check out SearchTempest, haven't been there yet. Of course, this will also be our first bus so it feels a bit daunting, shopping these rigs from a distance.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:43 AM   #8
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You should probably take a look at a number of buses that are near you just for practice so you get accustomed to finding features you want or don't want.
If you find something perfect on Public Surplus you can always go look at it before purchasing. Did somebody say road trip? Or if there are other Skoolie members near enough to the bus you're interested in you may be able to talk someone into a cursory inspection of the bus.
What I'm saying is look at buses you don't want to buy just for practice. Pretty soon you'll be evaluating buses just like you'd look at a used car.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:04 PM   #9
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be careful for looking for a "Colorado" bus. they may not have a retarder like you think.

certain counties within Colorado have more need for the Colorado spec that EC talks about. most would not.

most any bus on the front range (colorspring, denver, ft.colins) would have very little need for a retarder and mountain driving.

Utah has a fair number of mountain communities and they are way redder than Colorado! i dont see many Colorado buses on Public surplus, but lots of Utah ones.

good luck in searching!
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:16 PM   #10
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https://www.cde.state.co.us/transpor...rtrainermanual



Quote:
The required training was sparked by a fatal incident in the Rocky Mountains in the early 1990s when a school bus driver lost control of the vehicle and it flipped end-over-end and rolled one-and-a-half times down an embankment and into a river. Investigators later discover three of the four brakes were so far out of adjustment that the driver was able to operate the bus with the emergency brake engaged. The crash also led to a state requirement for brake retarders on school buses.
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:17 PM   #11
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Utah buses with retarders? They don't seem to have a great deal of buses at once but the sales seem pretty steady.

I had to look up retarders to understand what they were. Why don't those work like the dynamic braking systems that generate power instead of heat? Oh, probably not practical unless you've got a hybrid bus. Same principals though.
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:22 PM   #12
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:42 PM   #13
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Seen it. Wish I had one.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:47 PM   #14
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Colorado Revised Statues - 42-4-1901

COCODE

the fine print in the Colorado law you are referring to only applied to bus operating in "mountainous conditions".

in 2010 it was repealed by house bill 10-1232

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...e=1232_enr.pdf

not all of Colorado is mountains

my ex wife drove school buses locally here in Colorado and none of her buses ever had retarders on them. but im way out in the plains... no hills for miles.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
Utah buses with retarders? They don't seem to have a great deal of buses at once but the sales seem pretty steady.

I had to look up retarders to understand what they were. Why don't those work like the dynamic braking systems that generate power instead of heat? Oh, probably not practical unless you've got a hybrid bus. Same principals though.

not only do you have to have an electric motor to turn into a generator, thus creating resistance, you also have to disperse that energy somewhere..

in my chevy volt if I ran it up a hill forced in gasoline mode wit ha full battery pack (no its not efficient.. just a demonstration)..

then when I went down the other side.. and switched to electric only at the top.. on a long hill the battery would full-charge and I would lose all dynamic braking.. the pedal would go down about halfway till i felt any braking.. which was then the normal friction brakes...

mechanical retarders use the high compression of a diesel engine to create the resistance against gravity.. thus helping the brakes..

many air-brake busses are All drums... Drums have more mass and can take longer before losing effectiveness than a disk brake.. however a disk brake will recover quicker than a drum brake....

using your retarder or jake-brake as much as possible helps to keep your brakes cool. I can always tell an inexperienced truck driver when going down the mountains because I will hear the jake brake only being used part of the time... those often are the ones I smell with hot brakes at the end of a hill...

-Christopher
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:17 AM   #16
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Anyone have an idea what a driveline retarder adds to the cost of a bus (on average)? I.E. how much more would you expect to pay for a bus already featuring one?
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:51 AM   #17
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I don't know if there is a retarder for a rear engine bus, but I was thinking of adding an exhaust brake to mine since I do drive into the mountains around Phoenix 4 or so times a year. Anyone familiar with these?? Can they manually be switched on and off?
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:12 AM   #18
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I don't know if there is a retarder for a rear engine bus, but I was thinking of adding an exhaust brake to mine since I do drive into the mountains around Phoenix 4 or so times a year. Anyone familiar with these?? Can they be manually be switched on and off?
I'm also thinking that maybe just an exhaust brake or Jake brake would work for me. My budget is pretty tight though... (aren't they all?)
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:20 PM   #19
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Don't know about anyone else but the exhaust brake kit from caterpillar for the 3126b is 960 bucks........ugh!

Anyone know an aftermarket that is less expensive?

https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/177-9547
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:11 PM   #20
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My rear engine bus has a retarder, it's hydraulic and on the rear of a MD3060 Allison
transmission. On the down side of Soldier Summit over the Rocky Mountains I never
had to go past 3 on the retarder with the max available position being a 6. It was a
joyful ride with no worries on the steep grades.
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