Prison Bus Question

[CJ1417]

We have arrangements to view a former prison bus tomorrow-wondering if there are any pros/cons/additional things to consider with a prison bus as opposed to a bus that has been used for school (aside from bars on the windows!)? It is a 96 Bluebird with cummins 8.9l DSL Engine w/46,000 miles.

[o1marc]

They usually have high skinny windows that a body can't fit through. Good if you plan on deleting and skinny the old openings.

[milkmania]

do they typically have a stainless steel lavatory and black water holding tank?

[brokedown]

Compared to a school bus, the interior is less likely to be contaminated by vomit but more likely to be contaminated from every other bodily fluid.

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by o1marc

They usually have high skinny windows that a body can't fit through. Good if you plan on deleting and skinny the old openings.

Thanks for the response! Here is the picture from the posting-we are planning to raise the roof so I guess it won't matter much.

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by milkmania

do they typically have a stainless steel lavatory and black water holding tank?

Thanks for the response! This one was used for county transport only so it doesn't have a "bathroom". The center bench has been removed so it is "ready for conversion" as per the posting.

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by brokedown

Compared to a school bus, the interior is less likely to be contaminated by vomit but more likely to be contaminated from every other bodily fluid.

Haha-good point! Thanks!

[Thomas1985]

Cummins 8.3 you mean? That's one of the most sought after. 96 is a great year because it's mechanical and you won't have as many electrical or emissions problems to deal with. It was likely well take care of. I would pay up to five or 6000 and keep the bars on the windows!

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by Thomas1985

Cummins 8.3 you mean? That's one of the most sought after. 96 is a great year because it's mechanical and you won't have as many electrical or emissions problems to deal with. It was likely well take care of. I would pay up to five or 6000 and keep the bars on the windows!

We thought that too but confirmed with the seller is it 8.9l DSL Engine. Any thoughts on how that compares with the 8.3? We couldn't find much information on that engine.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by brokedown

Compared to a school bus, the interior is less likely to be contaminated by vomit but more likely to be contaminated from every other bodily fluid.

Vomit, too!

[dan-fox]

Interesting! I've been following this stuff for 4 years now, and this is the first I've heard of the ISL 8.9 liter engine.

An unattributed quote on the irv2 forum states:
"The ISL diesel carries a bore x stroke of 4.49 in. x 5.69 in. (114 mm x 144.5 mm) for an overall displacement of 8.9 L. Again, another family resemblance is the bore size, which is identical to the ISC engine.

The block, a gray iron unit features cast-in ribs for enhanced stiffness. "If you look at the block, it's really, from a casting standpoint very similar to the ISC block," said James D. Kahlenbeck, chief engineer of the ISL. "It's basically derivative of the known ISC platform, with some different machining because of various heavy-duty design requirements."

I also found claims that the heads for the 2 engines were identical, that the 8.9 had a 24v configuration, and that the ECMs were "different". Oh, boy, that's helpful.

Cummins as usual was heavy on sales and light on hard info. I couldn't find a reference to diesel-powered ISL's but lots on the wonderful 2017 CNG model.

There's a decent amount of aftermarket, and Cummins will support it for a while, I'd guess.

Has anyone anywhere heard of this engine in a bus before? School Bus Fleet Forums had one hit, excepting the fluff and press releases.

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by dan-fox

Interesting! I've been following this stuff for 4 years now, and this is the first I've heard of the ISL 8.9 liter engine.

An unattributed quote on the irv2 forum states:
"The ISL diesel carries a bore x stroke of 4.49 in. x 5.69 in. (114 mm x 144.5 mm) for an overall displacement of 8.9 L. Again, another family resemblance is the bore size, which is identical to the ISC engine.

The block, a gray iron unit features cast-in ribs for enhanced stiffness. "If you look at the block, it's really, from a casting standpoint very similar to the ISC block," said James D. Kahlenbeck, chief engineer of the ISL. "It's basically derivative of the known ISC platform, with some different machining because of various heavy-duty design requirements."

I also found claims that the heads for the 2 engines were identical, that the 8.9 had a 24v configuration, and that the ECMs were "different". Oh, boy, that's helpful.

Cummins as usual was heavy on sales and light on hard info. I couldn't find a reference to diesel-powered ISL's but lots on the wonderful 2017 CNG model.

There's a decent amount of aftermarket, and Cummins will support it for a while, I'd guess.

Has anyone anywhere heard of this engine in a bus before? School Bus Fleet Forums had one hit, excepting the fluff and press releases.

Thank you so much for the info!! The seller wasn't able to make it yesterday so we are hoping to see it either today or over the weekend-will post an update once we see it (hopefully with the keys in hand if it goes well!).

[brokedown]

I'm unconvinced that it's not the 8.3. It looks like a TC2000 to me, and those were made with the 5.9 or 8.3. If it came with an 8.9 that's going to be something pretty unique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_B...000#Powertrain

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by brokedown

I'm unconvinced that it's not the 8.3. It looks like a TC2000 to me, and those were made with the 5.9 or 8.3. If it came with an 8.9 that's going to be something pretty unique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_B...000#Powertrain

Either way its real hard to beat a low mile big Cummins in a bus.

[dan-fox]

Brokedown, I'm leaning towards your theory here. IF it is an 8.9, and that's a long shot, my guess would be that it was a retrofit with whatever they had lying around or could scrounge locally and quickly. OTOH, that one quote did say that the block casting was "based on the ISC" i.e. the 8.3 so if the mounting pads and the bell housing matched up, it'd be a slam dunk.

Since the bore remained the same, I would say that this is a clear case of different strokes for different folks.

[brokedown]

I'm expecting its a slip of the tongue from someone who isn't knowledgeable about that which they speak. Kind of like the whole "AT543" that you can find a lot of references to but doesn't actually exist. Confusing the 5.9 and the 8.3 naturally gives you either a 5.3 or 8.9.

If it actually has an 8.9 everything I've read indicates it was swapped by the owner. Not sure how I'd feel about buying a franken-bus.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by dan-fox

Brokedown, I'm leaning towards your theory here. IF it is an 8.9, and that's a long shot, my guess would be that it was a retrofit with whatever they had lying around or could scrounge locally and quickly. OTOH, that one quote did say that the block casting was "based on the ISC" i.e. the 8.3 so if the mounting pads and the bell housing matched up, it'd be a slam dunk.

Since the bore remained the same, I would say that this is a clear case of different strokes for different folks.

IDk, a prison could order any bus configuration they want. They're spending state/fed dollars and if that engine was an option I could see them ordering it that way.
Pics of the engine and vin would tell all.

I do think its most likely an 8.3 though.

[Thomas1985]

Just buy it already!

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

IDk, a prison could order any bus configuration they want. They're spending state/fed dollars and if that engine was an option I could see them ordering it that way.
Pics of the engine and vin would tell all.

I do think its most likely an 8.3 though.

Here is the VIN: 1BABKB7A6TF064049. We have plans to see it tomorrow so we will take pics as well in case we need further expert advice from this forum!

[CJ1417]

Originally Posted by Thomas1985

Just buy it already!

Going to see it tomorrow so hopefully all works out!!