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Old 10-22-2019, 12:13 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Thoughts on this Crown -

https://www.rvt.com/Crown-Supercoach...54717-UX342986

He's asking 10k and not 8. The price was originally 8, went up to 12, down to 10. All over the course of a few days. I've chatted with the seller a bit:

6-71TAC 270hp @ 2100 786ft/lbs@1200
Mated to a 545 according to the seller.

I haven't seen the plate to verify, but that doesn't sound right to me. Any Coach people that could dispute/verify that combination? Seems to me like that motor would blow than tranny to pieces.

Thanks in advance.

Garrett.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:14 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastone View Post
https://www.rvt.com/Crown-Supercoach...54717-UX342986

He's asking 10k and not 8. The price was originally 8, went up to 12, down to 10. All over the course of a few days. I've chatted with the seller a bit:

6-71TAC 270hp @ 2100 786ft/lbs@1200
Mated to a 545 according to the seller.

I haven't seen the plate to verify, but that doesn't sound right to me. Any Coach people that could dispute/verify that combination? Seems to me like that motor would blow than tranny to pieces.

Thanks in advance.

Garrett.
There's simply no way that bus has a 545 trans.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:27 PM   #3
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There's simply no way that bus has a 545 trans.
Most likely an HT-740 though I have seen a few low HP 671's with the MT-647.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:30 PM   #4
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thats one seller i wouldnt want to touch if he is going to move the price all over the place an d npt even update his ad.. can we say bait n switch?? since its advertised on a site at 8000.. it could probably be had for that.. or someone could push legalities.. i think this is the same crown that showed up in the vintage bus club..
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #5
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I have seen this Crown before, it looks very clean. I will let the true experts, Inceni John and Crown Guy chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I would agree that there is almost no chance a 545 is under there.

I think this is a good looking bus. The rear hatch looks very good, interior is clean, no real signs of abuse or neglect anywhere. Try to find out what school district it came from, I can see the Alliance Bus Lines on the side, if you can get the vin or bus number you can probably track down its history. Check out Crown Coach Junkies on FB, those people are amazing when it comes to knowing every old Crown that ran in CA. I would pay $8,000 for it, but not $10,000.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastone View Post
https://www.rvt.com/Crown-Supercoach...54717-UX342986

He's asking 10k and not 8. The price was originally 8, went up to 12, down to 10. All over the course of a few days. I've chatted with the seller a bit:

6-71TAC 270hp @ 2100 786ft/lbs@1200
Mated to a 545 according to the seller.

I haven't seen the plate to verify, but that doesn't sound right to me. Any Coach people that could dispute/verify that combination? Seems to me like that motor would blow than tranny to pieces.

Thanks in advance.

Garrett.

I can confirm that it has an MT643 or 644, possibly a 647 with higher torque rating but not likely. Certainly NOT a 545. And definitely not a HT740. Those were only needed on the much higher torque engines like the 8V-71, 6V/8V-92's and usually highway coachs and not school bus operations. I know of only one Crown II with a higher HP 6V-92 ordered for a mountain school district which had original HT740 and Jake Brakes directly from Crown. But that was the nature of Crown. Each unit was custom spec'd and built to each customers' unique requirements.

Top speed will be about 61mph at 2100rpm with typical 4.10 gearing as used on average school bus/district orders. Smaller injectors and various smog equipment added to make it drive like a pig and have very slow acceleration to keep smoke down and save fuel usage. Just a typical fleet vehicle where the operator didn't want the driver to have too much power or speed to get in trouble with. I've seen it everywhere in many different fleet operations though the years.

The good thing is that MOST of this stuff can be changed/upgraded to make it a truly awesome highway speed capable Crown, all it takes is the will and the proper application of $$$$ to make the mechanical upgrades. I did this with another similar fleet Crown and turned it into a solid 80mph highway cruiser that would effortlessly cruise at 75 all day long up and down the interstates without breathing hard at all. Very nice driving Crown. I drove it to Colorado and told the new owner to let me know if they ever wanted to sell it. It was that good.

And I wouldn't ever lug it down to 1200RPM-- EVER in operation in spite of what the specs say. That's the road to ruination and needing a new engine rebuild. The other sure fire way to hurt it is to run the wrong oil in it. ALWAYS and ONLY EVER use DELO 100 (NOT 400) 40wt CF2 rated or equivalent with the lowest ash content CF2 oil you can find, and there's only a very few brands available today that meet those specs.

I know those Crowns. It's from Alliance Bus Lines and everything they sold had issues due to deferred / non-existent maintenance. They knew the exact date they were going out of service due to Kalifornia Gestapo tactics. They ran them all till they broke something and then parked them until the auction, which I have much info on, and then robbed off parts to keep the others in service saving on new parts costs.

If the fleet number for this was known I might be able to say more. My bias is that they are in overall "pretty good" condition but usually with deep down and probably expensive repairs lurking under that good looking California aluminum skin. The fleet number will be on the CHP cert. mounted inside centered over the windshield, unless of course it's been removed....along with the front and back Crown emblems...and whatever else was removed where it can't be seen.

For all of you guys that are always wishing about how much you really want a classic "twinkie", Retro, etc. Crown and if only it weren't in California, Oregon, Washington etc. clear across the country,... here is one....well here's your chance. So just how serious are you really. In today's market this is not a bad deal at all and it's close to you to boot.

If you can get it from this utter fool of a seller for $8k Grab it quick and be sure you have about $10k laying around as a cushion to fix whatever you find. It's probably going to need it. The good news is that once it's fixed (and done right with no corner cutting) you'll have a true Crown with the proper running gear and longevity to last another 50 years and more. As I recall at the auction they all went for around $8k and some quite a bit higher, and they were all still full of problems and some barely driveable. I saw at least one being flat-bedded out on the freeway by chance and knew the rest were in not much better condition.

Obviously this Crown was driven to VA. so that's something at least, but it still doesn't answer the $64k question about why sell it??? Unless of course they found out what was really wrong underneath and even though it can drive it will need lots of $$$$$ to make it right. Even with engine troubles it can still be driven for thousands of miles but that doesn't make it right, needing many thousands $$$$ will do that.

This by the way is one of the truly awesome characteristics of all Crowns. Over the last 50 years of driving them in all kinds of service and with all kinds of companies and good, bad, and indifferent maintenance, a Crown in even very poor condition with many things broken or barely functioning will almost always manage to do the trip and get you and the group home in one piece. It has to be a very serious and catastrophic failure to put a Crown down on the side of the road. This can mean life and death to the individual private owner with no real resources to back him up like any commercial operator would have. You MUST have a vehicle that will continue to operate even when limping along, and still drive enough to find a safe place and repair facilities. Tow bills are a real bitch for one of these, I know.

This speaks volumes about the level of knowledge (zero by the way) of this seller who I suspect is some kind of used bus place with nothing at all going for him/them. Always remember this guy has NEVER ever seen a Crown and probably hasn't ever even heard of them. Certainly he's never driven one or probably even driven this example either. He's the worst kind of used car/bus salesman and should be approached and treated as the menace he truly is.

You can bet it will need work and his price is too high for the current condition it's in. Tires, batteries, oil, filters, suspension, brakes, stale fuel... lets count the ways and things that are most likely wrong.. and lets not forget the engine itself which I suspect is in need of some real $$$$ or else the original auction buyer would still own it. As I recall many of them had engine and turbo issues and were never fixed but driven until they died.

Buyer beware. But if you want a True Crown this is about all you'll find today for $8k. A Crown sorely in need of repairs and tender loving care to bring it back. And, oh yes it's worth every single penny you spend to bring it back to proper running condition. If done properly you shouldn't EVER have to mess with that issue again while you own it. You just can't drive it enough to compare with commercial operations and the high mileage tempo they were designed to deliver.

Until you experience what driving and operating a Crown in excellent condition is like there are no words to convey, and they remain merely words. The experience is all it will take to make a true believer out of the most jaded skeptic. That's why we Crown enthusiasts all sound the way we do about the virtues of Crowns.

Ever wonder why so many divergent and wide spread Crown owners all seem to extol the same attributes? We can't all be crazy but we certainly know of what we speak and those uninitiated can never know or understand. We just consider the sources of disparagement, smile and shake our heads in the knowledge they know not of what they speak.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
thats one seller i wouldnt want to touch if he is going to move the price all over the place an d npt even update his ad.. can we say bait n switch?? since its advertised on a site at 8000.. it could probably be had for that.. or someone could push legalities.. i think this is the same crown that showed up in the vintage bus club..
If someone contacts me about something I'm selling (I always post a price) and they ask me how much it is, I always raise the price, a few times I've made more money because they weren't paying enough attention.
Sure if they mentioned what the ad price was I'd go with it and tell them upfront that is just how I do business, I don't play games, offers always welcome but I just don't like repeating things I was already clear about.
What gets on my nerves is when people ask the condition of whatever when I was already clear about it.
How could someone push "legality" about what we are talking about? Atleast in an unincorporated type seller anyways.
When I agree to a lower price and time to meet and they don't show up that day, I don't honor the agreed price either and yet people will sometimes still wind up buying and if not usually I don't care to sit on stuff and wait, I don't get in a hurry to make a sell personally and I never misrepresent my wares, I;ll make a fair deal with a good buyer, but buyers that waste my time will wind up paying more for it.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:00 PM   #8
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The price is a bit higher than what I paid for mine this past January. I would have a tough time wanting to pay that for it without the history and maintenance records (provided by School District which purchased new in 1990). I guess I was fortunate

The seller does not appear to know enough about what they are selling given they said it had a 545. It is likely a MT643 or MT647 (mine has the MT647).

For that price I would expect some extras like tilt steering and air bags. Looking at the interior pic, it does not appear to have tilt steering (mine is equipped with both tilt and airbags).
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Old 11-11-2019, 04:52 PM   #9
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Well the really good thing about this Crown is that it's gone now. And it went to a superb new owner who will get the very best of service out of it for his family. His kids will probably keep it and use it later as well, a true family generational heirloom asset. If you're lucky you may see him out there on the road and understand why I always say that if you want to get home safely every single time buy a Crown and keep it up. It'll never let you down.

As it turns out it is in extremely superb condition with a really clean and straight body and the engine and running gear are in excellent condition where he may not need to spend anything at all to fix anything major and can start driving it right away. I actually have a picture I took a year ago of it sitting in the mechanics yard where it was obviously having engine and stuff checked and or fixed. This would explain of course why it's running so good now. You can either pay me now or pay me later is how you should look at all vehicle purchases. This one was taken care of before the seller here even bought it. An excellent find and getting harder and harder all the time as the good ones get snapped up leaving the ragged and sketchy ones usually with mechanical issues. Boy was I surprised.

He intends to drive it a LOT and only a Crown can do that with no issues. The seller as it turns out wasn't a bad guy at all but had life smack him in the face forcing the sale as soon as he got it home. But he did make the decision to buy and bring home a Crown marking him as one of those who understands what a Crown is about and why it's worth what they cost. Maybe later he can find another one when the time is right for him.

Someday you all may get lucky to find a Crown on the road in the wild and maybe get to touch it and see what all the fuss is about. Try it you may like it.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #10
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Well the really good thing about this Crown is that it's gone now. And it went to a superb new owner who will get the very best of service out of it for his family. If you're lucky you may see him out there on the road and understand why I always say that if you want to get home safely every single time buy a Crown and keep it up. It'll never let you down.



As it turns out it is in extremely superb condition with a really clean and straight body and the engine and running gear are in excellent condition where he may not need to spend anything at all to fix anything major and can start driving it right away. An excellent find and getting harder and harder all the time as the good ones get snapped up leaving the ragged and sketchy ones with mechanical issues. Boy was I surprised.


He intends to drive it a LOT and only a Crown can do that with no issues. The seller as it turns out wasn't a bad guy at all but had life smack him in the face forcing the sale as soon as he got it home. But he did make the decision to buy and bring home a Crown marking him as one of those who understands what a Crown is about and why it's worth what they cost. Maybe later he can find another one when the time is right for him.



Someday you all may get lucky to find a Crown on the road in the wild and maybe get to touch it and see what all the fuss is about. Try it you may like it.
No bias here.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:16 PM   #11
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No apologies. I'm absolutely and irredeemably totally biased. And proud of it.


You should know that by now. Someday you may learn to understand why.


If you're lucky.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:02 PM   #12
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No apologies. I'm absolutely and irredeemably totally biased. And proud of it.


You should know that by now. Someday you may learn to understand why.


If you're lucky.

Mike, thanks for your help.along the way. Drove her home yesterday. About a three hour trip. The big girl performed flawlessly. I need some seat time to get used to driving her. The kids were elated when they got home from Grandma's house. The ran up and down the aisle until dinner time.

I'll give you a buzz this weekend.

Garrett.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #13
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Mike, thanks for your help.along the way. Drove her home yesterday. About a three hour trip. The big girl performed flawlessly. I need some seat time to get used to driving her. The kids were elated when they got home from Grandma's house. The ran up and down the aisle until dinner time.

I'll give you a buzz this weekend.

Garrett.
Good for you. I look forward to hearing about it. Pretty awesome Huh?
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:09 PM   #14
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Glad to hear you got it and in good shape. I am near Fredericksburg, and have worked on (including rebuilding) Detroits, and have a few of them.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
...His kids will probably keep it and use it later as well, a true family generational heirloom asset...

...If you're lucky you may see him out there on the road and understand why I always say that if you want to get home safely every single time buy a Crown...

...I actually have a picture I took a year ago of it...

...He intends to drive it a LOT and only a Crown can do that with no issues...

...he did make the decision to buy and bring home a Crown marking him as one of those who understands what a Crown is about and why it's worth what they cost...

...Someday you all may get lucky to find a Crown on the road in the wild and maybe get to touch it and see what all the fuss is about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
No apologies. I'm absolutely and irredeemably totally biased. And proud of it.You should know that by now. Someday you may learn to understand why. If you're lucky.
I appreciate your passion, but you are talking about a school bus right? I especially enjoyed the comment about finding one "in the wild" and getting to "touch it". Priceless, just like a Crown.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:51 PM   #16
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I appreciate your passion, but you are talking about a school bus right? I especially enjoyed the comment about finding one "in the wild" and getting to "touch it". Priceless, just

like a Crown.

Not Just a "school bus". It's a Crown Coach.

Many, (OK, most), were built and configured to be a school bus and painted yellow. Many Charter companies had Crowns that they used interchangeably for school and Charter runs. I learned in a company like that where all summer long every day we went on camp runs to places that would give a 4wd pause. I also drove Crowns on long multi-day charters out of state and they were just as solid and reliable as any GMC Coach of the day, which I also drove for this company.

Crown also made magnificent Highway Coaches and other very specialized vehicles, look it up online, the Crown Atomic Energy Commission coaches are most well known.

These were normal highway configurations with rear-mounted 8V-71's, engine driven Air-conditioning, full air-ride suspension on all 3 axles, 40ft long, full length underfloor luggage bays, reclining seats, parcel racks, sometimes even a bathroom, just exactly as all the other Greyhound type GMC, MCI, Prevost, coaches of the day were.

They were also quite capable of the million+ mile longevity the others were known for. Ever see a GMC parlor (greyhound) coach today of any kind?? They will all have probably close to a million miles on it before it went to a private owner, some considerably more. Every single Scenicruiser you see today has at least 5 million miles on it, since Greyhound kept them that long or longer before selling them. I owned and operated a Scenicruiser for years and it was the best driving and handling bus I ever drove. Reliable and easy to keep on the road making money, except for the A/C which is always a pita on all coaches.

Crowns are built just as well and will do the same thing.

Also several Nat'l Park contractors had some mid-engine Crowns with coach siding and reclining seats etc. These are ALL the very same engineering and materials as used in the regular old "yellow school bus", they're the same under the skin. Crown "school buses" are all true thoroughbreds hiding in sheep's clothing.

Can you say Crown Firecoach? L.A. City and County Fire and many many other local fire departments had nothing but Crowns and hated having to part with them over the current Kalifornia holocaust of destruction under way. These are exactly the same underneath the skin too with many still in service out of state where Kalifornia can't reach them.

Look up Crown Firecoach for a thrill. The Governator is driving a Crown in the first Terminator and I still wince every time I watch it and see all the damage they do to it. The movie was made at a time you could still pick one up (a Crown), bus or firecoach, for almost pocket change.

Like I keep saying. You won't know until you see and/or drive one, in the wild, if you like, or at a historical bus gathering maybe, to really check one out and maybe "get it".

And, by the way, Gilligs of all kinds were almost the exact same way in their design, quality, and execution. They were the Northern California cousins to our SoCal Crowns which being built here made them more common. They were also mid-engined and later rear-engined like Crowns.

Nothing at all wrong with a Gillig, and the Gillig Phantom is an awesome bus in either of it's guises, whether as a school bus or as a transit/suburban bus. Extremely well done and Gillig was smarter than Crown by changing with the times and designing and producing a winner of a transit bus which they later adapted to school bus service. They survived but sadly Crown did not.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:16 AM   #17
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I know everything about Crowns and Gilligs, also Ford F600, B700, F800, F900. I have manuals, schematics, many many many many parts, engines, trannies, diffs.

My advice is free 24/7. I know more about Gilligs than anyone on the West Coast, maybe the U.S. I've owned 40 Gilligs, 35 Crowns, every possible configuration, and have dismantled about 30.

I've been a mechanic for 53 years, buses for about 28 years. There is very little I do not know, and if there is I can find it out quickly.

Patrick Young FRESNO, CA (559) 251-3814 Once again FREE advice 24/7 anytime. I've rebuilt two engines so far, owned 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 cylinder diesels to include Nissan, Lister-Petter, Cummins, CAT, Detroit Diesel, IHC, Isuzu, Mercedes, Hercules and a few more I've probably forgot.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gilligs/Crowns and Parts View Post
I know everything about Crowns and Gilligs, also Ford F600, B700, F800, F900. I have manuals, schematics, many many many many parts, engines, trannies, diffs.

My advice is free 24/7. I know more about Gilligs than anyone on the West Coast, maybe the U.S. I've owned 40 Gilligs, 35 Crowns, every possible configuration, and have dismantled about 30.

I've been a mechanic for 53 years, buses for about 28 years. There is very little I do not know, and if there is I can find it out quickly.

Patrick Young FRESNO, CA (559) 251-3814 Once again FREE advice 24/7 anytime. I've rebuilt two engines so far, owned 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 cylinder diesels to include Nissan, Lister-Petter, Cummins, CAT, Detroit Diesel, IHC, Isuzu, Mercedes, Hercules and a few more I've probably forgot.
And, oddly, you have absolutely nothing to say about the bus in question...
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:12 AM   #19
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Glad I found this thread. I know almost nothing about the subject matter. I am just scratching the surface on buses in general. Sounds like it may be worth delving a little deeper.
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:26 PM   #20
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And, oddly, you have absolutely nothing to say about the bus in question...
Seems like he has a bot set up to post this comment in any thread with "Crown" in the title. Although maybe I'm overestimating the technical skills of someone who sells old bus parts.
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