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Old 08-03-2016, 08:28 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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WTB: Flat nosed pusher/DT 466

Hey folks, me and my wife are new to this school bus to RV conversion scene, but looking to buy a large flat nosed RE(rear engine)school bus with a DT466(possibly a T444 if low enough miles and good maintenance records)and Auto transmission in good running condition, looking to spend in the $1500-$4000 range cash. From what we have seen that would mean we are looking at buses built around 2000, plus or mins a fwew years. Willing to travel. Located in New England area.

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Old 08-04-2016, 04:30 PM   #2
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Chassis: IC 300RE
Engine: T444E, 7.3L Turbo Diesel
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Bought mine at:

Don Brown Bus Sales, Inc.
Steven VanHeusen
Toll Free: 1-877-637-2248
Cell: 518-986-8359
Don Brown Bus Sales, Inc - Home

Search under school bus inventory.
Ask them about delivery. They deliver which is nice if you can get insurance pre-conversion, and if anything breaks down during delivery they are still responsible.
Steve went above and beyond the sale for me.

Jeff (NH) mine I bought there is below =0)

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Old 10-06-2016, 01:06 PM   #3
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Location: North Georgia Mountains
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Year: 96
Coachwork: AmTran
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I've got something close, but FE, in the price range.

I've actually just decided to sell my bus, finances and time have not gone the way I was hoping when I started the project. I'm in the Georgia mountains, near Cleveland.

Specs: 38ft AmTran Genesis, DT466 diesel engine with a 545 Allison Trans. Model year is 1996, the last year of the mechanical injection models, so it will work with WVO or BioDiesel. I've removed all the seats, all the windows are still in, but one is broken. It has the emergency door in the back, as well as two on the roof and 4 pop out windows exits. It is all disc brakes, hydraulic, so lower repair cost and less to go wrong. Steering tires will need replacing in the near future, but are good to run on for now. Plenty of under belly storage. Batteries need replacing, they only hold a charge for a couple of days, but it will jump off and runs great. It's been parked in my back yard near trees for the last two years, so it needs a bath, but there is no rust and the paint is good. Asking $3000.00, which is a little less than what I have in it, but it's just taking up space right now. I'll start again when my finances allow.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

Let me know what you think, I was going to start listing it, but figured I'd check here first.
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:32 AM   #4
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Any additional pics/info available
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:41 AM   #5
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Location: North Georgia Mountains
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Year: 96
Coachwork: AmTran
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Engine: DT466
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A few pics on my FB site

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Old 10-11-2016, 10:02 AM   #6
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Outcast....the F/B link isn't showing your pics.
good luck
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:23 AM   #7
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Location: North Georgia Mountains
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Maybe I'll have better luck with Flickr, I have it set to public, my FB has privacy settings too high I suppose.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskLyhavB
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:57 AM   #8
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Did you ever list this bus? If not can you let us know? Thanks.
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:02 PM   #9
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No I haven't listed it yet. Been too busy, and now I'm trying to find the title. My filing system really needs some work, lol. But it's still with me...
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:41 PM   #10
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Year: 2000
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6942 View Post
Hey folks, me and my wife are new to this school bus to RV conversion scene, but looking to buy a large flat nosed RE(rear engine)school bus with a DT466(possibly a T444 if low enough miles and good maintenance records)and Auto transmission in good running condition, looking to spend in the $1500-$4000 range cash. From what we have seen that would mean we are looking at buses built around 2000, plus or mins a fwew years. Willing to travel. Located in New England area.
I'd be willing to bet you're being too picky, no offense. I thought about it all just like you when I started, based on a lot of opinions I read on various forums.

First, you won't find a decent 466 meeting your specs at $1500 unless you get very lucky, though $4k is very reasonable. Why not settle for a less expensive T444E (which I believe are generally in much better condition as they're not as sought after) and sink the savings into something else? The 444 is a very reliable bus as long as you're not looking to put a million miles on the engine, and there are some smaller variants of the DT wet sleeve (360?) that are great. You can find a really nice deal on either of these between 2-3k. The Cummins is also a fantastic engine, although I can't personally attest to it.

Additionally, why automatic? The bus listed below is a beautiful bus but the 545 tranny will probably need work before 200k. The manual transmissions will last forever minus a new clutch here and there. They're not that difficult to learn on. Mine still has cruise control. Finding just the right match of a DT466 and a powerful Allison tranny will get time consuming and expensive as you are outbid at every auction.

There's a lot of conjecture on which engine is better than which but if you keep your eyes peeled and remain unbiased you'll get yourself a much better deal. Check publicsurplus and govdeals religiously. I swear, you will not be disappointed. It's easy to get really focused on what you think you need, based on what the majority on a forum tends to agree a better engine is.

The T444E has been used as a light-medium duty truck engine for a long time and there are a lot of happy customers out there. It should last well past 250k without issues if well maintained. Parts are plentiful and most of them are the same as the pickup power stroke version, which is mostly the same exact engine with a different computer.

The DT466 will probably last well past 500k if well maintained. Okay. Definitely true, but are you really going to be doing that much driving? Most of us are not OTR truckers and are not putting 500k-1 million miles on our engines. Most of our buses will rot well before we get there. It took me a long time to understand this concept. If I don't have property in a few years I'm doing something wrong. My bus hasn't hit 67k yet. I'll never see 500k.
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:59 PM   #11
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I'm in the Georgia mountains, near Cleveland.
You aren't making this easy; my mom lives in Cloudland, GA. I'd probably have to quit my job to work on it tho.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by warewolff View Post
The T444E has been used as a light-medium duty truck engine

The DT466 will probably last well past 500k if well maintained.
Is there such a thing as DT466E?

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Old 11-03-2016, 03:44 PM   #13
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Yes, there is. Pre-1996 or so there was the mechanical DT466, later changed to the electronic 466E. Later years dropped the E and called it the 466 again, but they're still electronic engines.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by warewolff View Post
Yes, there is. Pre-1996 or so there was the mechanical DT466, later changed to the electronic 466E. Later years dropped the E and called it the 466 again, but they're still electronic engines.
So E=Electronic, what does T=? What does DT=? And electronic what?
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:14 PM   #15
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I believe T is Turbo and DT is Diesel Turbo. And even though the E designation for electronically controlled engines was dropped, the engines are still electronically controlled unless of course you get one that was manufactured before those electronics became standard equipment.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:03 PM   #16
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So E=Electronic, what does T=? What does DT=? And electronic what?
Electronic fuel injection and a computerized engine. The electronic fuel injection doesn't do as well with the WVO conversions but otherwise they are all solid engines. Don't get caught up on it. Folks on the forum like the mechanical because they are a little less finicky ... for instance, changing the governor on a mechanical is more or less just a matter of turning a bolt, where on an electronic you need to hook it up to a $700 interface to alter the computer settings. Mine is an electronic and I am very happy.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:21 PM   #17
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He'll have to have 444 because they don't do 466 in rear engine that he wants. Who makes stick in a later model bus still? I thought there were no more sticks.

$4k will get you the best stuff out there. when buying buy as good as you can afford its way cheaper than having work done. You want 643 trans or a 5 speed if you see one as it can be programed to 6 speed and its really nice to drive.

There is never enough room buy the longest one you can.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:19 AM   #18
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stick is tough to find... auto is easier... I have 2 busses... both with AT545 automatics... ie gone through monteagle, smokies, appalachains with no issues... havent tried the rockies yet... others have run the rockies in an AT545 and you simply go slow and careful..

if you get up past about 2001 or 2002 you get into the allison 2000 series transmissions which are Lockup And Overdrive... they will give you the ability to downshift and hold just liek a stick..

there were a FEW DT-466 Mechanicals that were available in some busses up through 98 or so.. but as mentioned most of the mechanicals were gone by CHASSIS YEAR 1995..

I have one DT-360 Mechanical and 1 T-444E..
the beauty of the DT-360 is its very simple to work on as far as mechanics go... not much to it.. and very little wiring...

the BIG advantage of the inline 6's over the V-8 diesels (the DT 360 / 466 is inline 6, the T-444E is a V-8, the 5.9 cummins is inline.. ) is the Low end brute torque vs the V-8 which likes its turbo to spool up before it takes off really well..

my DT-360 is in a bus rated at 27500 GVWR.. when I stomp it off the line it takes off nicely up until about 30 MPH.. then it slowly buiklds speed up to 55-60..

my T-444E is in a Bus rated at 17500 GVWR.. when I stomp it off the line it takes a bit before I get much 'GO'.. but on the highway it will run up from 45-55 quite Quicker than the DT..

my DT-360 is rated at 185 HP and my T-444E is rated at 190 HP..

the HEUI electronic system used in the DT-466E / T-444E scares alot of people.. they read forums about issues and freak out... however if you take a little time to learn it then it all becomes pretty simple.. and having an interface to read the computer data out makes an issue that much easier to troubleshoot...

as mentioned, the T-444E is Very similar (though not identical) to the Ford Powerstroke 7.3 used in the pickups from 1997-2003. the Block and many internals are the same... parts are a bit pricey but widely available..
NOTE: the comouters are different so performance tuners, Computer interfaces, etc are different on the International Busses than they are on the ford pickups... the ford-van cutaway busses use the ford computers..

another thing to keep in mind is that swapping parts like engines and transmissions is very expensive unless you have connections so it may be best to spend a couple grand more to get the bus you want as opposed to getting that "great deal" and then saying you'll swap in a new motor or transmission...

-Christopher
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:37 AM   #19
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolff View Post
Electronic fuel injection and a computerized engine. The electronic fuel injection doesn't do as well with the WVO conversions but otherwise they are all solid engines. Don't get caught up on it. Folks on the forum like the mechanical because they are a little less finicky ... for instance, changing the governor on a mechanical is more or less just a matter of turning a bolt, where on an electronic you need to hook it up to a $700 interface to alter the computer settings. Mine is an electronic and I am very happy.
Figured it was ECU controlled. '92/'93 was about the start of OBD for passenger cars. Didn't know the fuel injection was that far behind on diesels.

Ya know, I usually have to tell people to speak using little words. I see you wanna be different. You need to speak with bigger words. ;) What the hell is WVO? I have seen that here before. Former Navy, worked most of my career in government contracting and I still don't speak acronym. I refuse to become one of them.

I don't know the average user age on this forum but I'm thinking we are older than the average tuner car kid forum. That said, I kinda like changing the idle with a screwdriver. But I did give away the last of my carb cars and everything else is now '06 or newer. So, you're ok with EFI and ECUs? Is it a $700 dealer only interface or just a fancy OBD interface that everyone has? I do have a buddy (250 miles away) that knows his way around electronic cars without know electronics. Kinda weird since I'm the opposite; I know electronics but not how to tune. Anywho, I guess the real question is, how often do you NEED the $700 toy? It's required for a custom rebuild. Might be required for a OEM rebuild. Is it required for a regular old tune up?
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:47 AM   #20
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Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo Jeff View Post
He'll have to have 444 because they don't do 466 in rear engine that he wants. Who makes stick in a later model bus still? I thought there were no more sticks.
I'm more used to the car kids. LS3 Corvette engine can and has been stuffed into a Miata. With a plasma cutter, most anything is possible. Smaller niche but where are the bus tuner kids? Someone somewhere has used a semi engine/tranny in their bus build. If for no other reason than his neighbor said he couldn't do it.

Quote:
$4k will get you the best stuff out there. when buying buy as good as you can afford its way cheaper than having work done. You want 643 trans or a 5 speed if you see one as it can be programed to 6 speed and its really nice to drive.
I'm ok with a manual in a car. Never driven a rig in stick. Even the Uhauls are auto.

Quote:
There is never enough room buy the longest one you can.
I know this was to the OP as is the above but I'm an extremes guy. I'm either building a Ford Transit or the biggest bus I can find.
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