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Old 07-08-2015, 07:56 AM   #31
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Hey we can both agree that theres no ONE way to skin ANY cat.

But my welder ISN'T Chinese., You seem to think welding is alchemy.

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Old 07-08-2015, 08:11 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
You seem to think welding is alchemy.


Welding is kinda magic. I've seen intergranular stress corrosion cracking in the HAZ of well qualified welds before. No one could explain why or could've seen it coming. Anodes didn't help. A lot can go wrong with welds that you never think would happen.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:13 AM   #33
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I've seen bolts and rivets snap.
I've pulled welds with a frame machine and the metal sheared before the weld would fail.
We aren't talking about welding one inch think steel here... This is the kind of welding your car is made of. WHen you wreck your car it goes to an autobody shop... They sometimes weld...
If rivets were better, then they'd be riveting the roll cages together for nascar/ihra...

For me its welding>adhesives>fasteners
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
I'm not saying the roof raises on here are shoddy, but a standard bus is engineered good enough to provide safety in certain roll overs. I understand the wrecked busses were heavily modified and obviously unsafe. But I still feel that after a raise, all of the engineering went out the window, and the bus would no longer be safe. Just my $.02
This has been my perspective all along. School bus ribs are one-piece formed steel from floor-left to floor-right to create a seamless 'cage' to which the horizontal ribs and skin is riveted. After all, isn't this the fundamental reason we build skoolies instead of RVs?!

Now if you're going through the trouble to cut the rib into three pieces and bolt/weld/rivet it all back together, what I'm wondering is this... Would it be more in keeping with the intent of the original design and safety characteristics to lift the roof AND walls from the floor level? It appears that the ribs extend down past the floor level to the skirt so why not just 'take up the hemline' and raise that skirt up to the floor level? Even if it means relocating some windows, isn't all that fabrication for the 'raised roof gap' just as much if not more labor than retapping a few window frames, not to mention many or most of the original windows are covered over anyways.

Just a thought and what I'm trying to wrap my own head around before I commit to my first bus.
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:01 AM   #35
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It appears that the ribs extend down past the floor level to the skirt so why not just 'take up the hemline' and raise that skirt up to the floor level?
The support ribs (hat channels) do not run down to the skirt passed the floor.

They stop about half a inch from the floor, where they rivet to the chair rail on the inside, and the outer skin on the outside.

As little as 6 rivets hold the bottoms in place.

The chair rail rivets are the big 1/4 solid core. The outer skin rivets are the little 1/8th and 3/16. This tells me most of the weight is transfered from the support ribs to the chair rail.

In my case I needed and wanted bigger window openings. Cutting the support ribs at center of the original windows worked best for what I wanted and needed.

Being I was the first to have proper support rib extensions made to the same shape as the original support ribs, I feel I have the strongest roof raise on skoolie.net.

Using square pipe that don't quite fit right, round pipe, ect don't cut it IMO. Using crap like that is nothing more than a hack of a mess waiting to fail.

Also too many members seem to think fatiguing the steel to no end with a welder is a good idea. The bus was build with rivets for the same reason a air plane is build with rivets. Welding on the thin 16ga support ribs is as bad as welding the frame of your bus.

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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I've seen bolts and rivets snap.
I've pulled welds with a frame machine and the metal sheared before the weld would fail.
We aren't talking about welding one inch think steel here... This is the kind of welding your car is made of. WHen you wreck your car it goes to an autobody shop... They sometimes weld...
If rivets were better, then they'd be riveting the roll cages together for nascars

For me its welding>adhesives>fasteners
Welding one inch think steel is the right way to attach it. Welding 16 ga sheet steel is not.

No welding is done on cars today. They simply change the bent body parts.

If nascar roll cages were made from 16 ga steel, they would be riveted together.

Anything that need to take movement is riveted, not welded.
Just like the internal steel framework for skyscrapers. Again, rivets, not welding.

Proper order of modern fastening is like this.

Adhesives, rivets, welding.

Proper riveting can be done by anyone.

Proper welding needs to be done by a professional, in a shop, with minimum $10,000 in tools. Way to much to go wrong for the DIY person.

Nat
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
The support ribs (hat channels) do not run down to the skirt passed the floor.

They stop about half a inch from the floor, where they rivet to the chair rail on the inside, and the outer skin on the outside.

As little as 6 rivets hold the bottoms in place.

The chair rail rivets are the big 1/4 solid core. The outer skin rivets are the little 1/8th and 3/16. This tells me most of the weight is transfered from the support ribs to the chair rail.

Nat
Gotcha, and I suppose that makes sense from the manufacturing standpoint as long as the bus has enough integrity to withstand the various accident scenarios states and fed throw at them. So the structure I'm seeing underneath these buses don't represent core structural components but rather only superficial skirting support? That's kind of a bummer but at least it settles that conundrum in my mind once and for all.

Thanks for the illumination.
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Old 08-16-2015, 01:19 PM   #37
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This might help.



Skirt supports are spaced every fifth floor support, and riveted with two rivets at the top to that floor support.

More highly detailed pics of bus deconstruction can be found in my latest build thread.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/th...ime-10138.html

Nat
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Old 08-16-2015, 01:41 PM   #38
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Awesome! Yes, I'm a visual person so this makes even more sense.
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