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Old 04-04-2016, 12:21 AM   #1
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students hurt after Texas school bus rolls over

High School

Dozens of students hurt after Texas school bus rolls over


Sad that the kids were hurt Seat-belts would have helped a lot . I thought all things considered the bus held up nicely after rolling multiple times .

Just hoping the kids all heal up quickly .


Dozens of students hurt after Texas school bus rolls over | Fox News
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:21 AM   #2
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wow, must of been on hell of a straight line wind to get a bus fishtailing, prayers out for occupants
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:19 PM   #3
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Mandatory seat belts or equal to it

I have always thought school buses should have mandatory seat belts or more safety. Yes they are bigger vehicles but that shouldn't matter. Plus, i'd feel safer with my kids on it.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:31 AM   #4
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In my area the county cried about how many millions seat belts would cost, guess it's cheaper to just let kids be hurt or killed. They have money to save stink bugs (2 million or so TN paid out to revive stink bugs from extinction) but seat belts oh not those things.... Guess they figure since so many are on food stamps they win when they get more kids off gov aid.
Retarded, I have to wear a seat belt, driver of the bus has to wear one, but little kids on a bus that should atleast be in a booster seat in a bus is fine and legal no problem.
These idiots that make such stupid laws need beaten nearly to death, better just pile em up in a bus and smash it good, those that make it out win their lives.... Sorry this stuff just makes me angry.
BUT anyone can avoid this, just homeschool your kids or take them yourself, *IF* they really matter that much to you that is.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinSamson View Post
I have always thought school buses should have mandatory seat belts or more safety. Yes they are bigger vehicles but that shouldn't matter. Plus, i'd feel safer with my kids on it.
In the event of an accident the driver needs to be able to get all of the students out quickly.

I have heard that some states have a specific time written in the regs.

That is the argument against seat belts
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:42 AM   #6
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:47 AM   #7
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In the event of an accident the driver needs to be able to get all of the students out quickly.

I have heard that some states have a specific time written in the regs.

That is the argument against seat belts
My bus had seat belts in the first 4 rows and came with a dandy seat belt cutter.
Don't make buses with gas engines, diesel only so explosion isn't possible would be another good notion.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:20 AM   #8
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In the event of an accident the driver needs to be able to get all of the students out quickly.

I have heard that some states have a specific time written in the regs.

That is the argument against seat belts
90 seconds is my understand. Even with a belt cutter that'd be near impossible.

There are strong arguments both ways. Little kids won't belt up or will use the belts to hit each other and it there's no riding attendant the driver cannot keep order. Older kids won't belt up because they believe they're invincible anyways and old enough to decide for themselves. The evacuation scenario is also a factor coupled with the overall design of buses called compartmentalization which in most cases is effective enough in absorbing impacts. Rollovers are most difficult to manage although if you notice there are no corners or edges inside the interior. Rollovers are also least likely but when they do occur this topic usually resurfaces.

It does seem absurd that special needs buses have seatbelts while standard buses don't even when special needs buses also have attendants but I think the reasoning is pretty obvious they need these students restrained for their own safety more than the accident protection. If general use seat belts were phased in as buses are replaced then it wouldn't cost so much up front like retrofitting and would be done in 10-15 years. And for all the sanctimony about the value American society places on children it does seem hypocritical that in this one regard nothing substantial has been done in nearly a century of student transportation progress.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:02 PM   #9
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90 seconds is my understand. Even with a belt cutter that'd be near impossible.

There are strong arguments both ways. Little kids won't belt up or will use the belts to hit each other and it there's no riding attendant the driver cannot keep order. Older kids won't belt up because they believe they're invincible anyways and old enough to decide for themselves. The evacuation scenario is also a factor coupled with the overall design of buses called compartmentalization which in most cases is effective enough in absorbing impacts. Rollovers are most difficult to manage although if you notice there are no corners or edges inside the interior. Rollovers are also least likely but when they do occur this topic usually resurfaces.

It does seem absurd that special needs buses have seatbelts while standard buses don't even when special needs buses also have attendants but I think the reasoning is pretty obvious they need these students restrained for their own safety more than the accident protection. If general use seat belts were phased in as buses are replaced then it wouldn't cost so much up front like retrofitting and would be done in 10-15 years. And for all the sanctimony about the value American society places on children it does seem hypocritical that in this one regard nothing substantial has been done in nearly a century of student transportation progress.
So in other words the gov school system needs to be held accountable for not providing enough safety and adult supervision to keep the children safe that are in their care or lack of it. The excuses don't make up for the hurt and killed children all because they want to keep costs low all while funding some of the most stupid things. No wonder kids grow up making excuses rather than taking responsibility for anything, the gov trains them to be this way.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:42 PM   #10
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One aspect of school buses that is different from other vehicles is that the body is clamped to the chassis rails (as opposed to being welded or bolted) because the body is meant to slide a few feet in an accident (as shown in this video: ). This greatly reduces the deceleration experienced by the passengers in a crash. Adding seat belts might (and probably does) increase safety somewhat, but riding without seat belts in a school bus is nowhere near as unsafe as it is in other types of vehicles.

That being said, some of those kid dummies still do some serious face-planting on the backs of the seats in front of them, which is not an experience I'd want to have.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinSamson View Post
I have always thought school buses should have mandatory seat belts or more safety. Yes they are bigger vehicles but that shouldn't matter. Plus, i'd feel safer with my kids on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
In the event of an accident the driver needs to be able to get all of the students out quickly.

I have heard that some states have a specific time written in the regs.

That is the argument against seat belts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
90 seconds is my understand. Even with a belt cutter that'd be near impossible.

90 seconds is the requirement for all commercial airliners, regardless of size and seating capacity. Airlines spend considerable money for pilots and flight attendants (and compensated volunteers) to practice these evacuations on a regular basis.


Quick evacuations are critical in school buses. Just ask the state of Kentucky:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presto...,_bus_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrollton_bus_collision
To summarize, the 1958 Prestonsburg incident involved a bus going into a river (26 kids+ driver drowned, unable to escape quickly enough). The 1988 Carrollton crash, the gasoline powered (former school) bus was hit head on, bursting into flames (27 fatalities from smoke inhalation and/or burning to death). Shortly afterward, Kentucky passed laws requiring more emergency exits than any other government entity in the known world (A minimum of nine - front, back, and side doors, 4 windows, and two roof hatches).
Another member of this board posted a story about a similar story they were involved in (or a relative, I can't remember which). Evacuating 70+ chaotic, freaking-out kindergartners in-a-hurry is hard enough without having to undo/cut 70+ seatbelts.
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:48 PM   #12
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My six window Thomas cutaway is the only bus that I have seen with seatbelt .

The key chain that came with it had a seatbelt cutter on it.

Consider having to evacuate 84 terrified kids out of the bus in 90 seconds. If one in ten have trouble with their seatbelts you are unlikely to meet the requirements.

We have had motorized school buses for around 100 years in this country. Injuries to students are quite rare. I think that the "overbuiling" of school buses to credit for that.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:03 PM   #13
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A few years back getting my S and P endorsements the training included evacuating the bus. Not only is the driver responsible for the evacuation, they are also responsible for the students staying put a safe distance away. Good luck with that!
A bus will usually be completely engulfed in flames in 3-5 minutes. Having to release multiple seat belts in that time frame is wishful thinking. The "high back" seats are designed to contain the "cargo" in the event of a crash.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:23 PM   #14
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Consider having to evacuate 84 terrified kids out of the bus in 90 seconds. If one in ten have trouble with their seatbelts you are unlikely to meet the requirements.

That's probably why I've not heard of any bus evacuation time standards, only requirements for how many emergency exits they have.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:59 PM   #15
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I've got 5 kids of my own, so it would take atleast 90 seconds to get them out, so by that I shouldn't have to have them in seat belts either..... Much less myself.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:42 PM   #16
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I've got 5 kids of my own, so it would take atleast 90 seconds to get them out, so by that I shouldn't have to have them in seat belts either..... Much less myself.
Not really that great of an argument in favor of belts as it doesn't address the core idea that buses are different than a typical consumer vehicle in this particular regard. If a child on a bus was "strapped in" and burned to death in an accident that went up in flames you know exactly what/who would be blamed, whether you agree with it or not.


I'd say no on belts in school buses, or transit buses. These are not the same as non-commercial passenger vehicles. That being said, I think you're spot on when you say "if you really care about your kids either take them yourself or homeschool them", me opting for the latter.
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