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Old 02-18-2007, 09:41 PM   #11
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Couldn't you just call the WVO a fuel additive for the sake of lubricating the injecter pump? I know in my state fuel additives are not taxed and they don't define just how much is considered an additive. 99% WVO, 1% diesel, anyone? Honestly, I think most people would be more interested in the prospects of WVO versus the tax issue. People running WVO are such a small percentage that it really doesn't make much of a difference anyway.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:08 PM   #12
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svo and petro diesel mixing part II

sorry about the delay, but better late...
ok.
i've done some mixing and actually observed the results since i did it in 32 oz glass pickle jars. eat the pickles first, and the clausen ones are good...
i bought 64 oz of generic vegetable oil (soy) at the supermarket for about $3.50 and then some chicken and potatoes. in the kitchen i set almost all the oil in a large camping pot and cooked the food, eating and sharing some and setting the rest aside, covered.
the next day i went to and bought $9 worth of petro diesel and pumped most of it in my car but at the end squirted some into a (empty and clean) jar, filling up about a third of the way.
it was tinted flourescent green like radiator fluid - obviously dyed.
back at the ranch i put an old sock over the petro diesel jar and poured off some of the veggie oil into it, about the same amount. this jar was now about two thirds full. i did this on the porch in the afternoon in about 70 degree weather and left the oil pot in the sun to warm it up.
i recapped the jar after a while and put it in the fridge to see what would happen.
firstly, not much, in or out of the fridge. it got a bit thicker.
eventually the tint went away leaving a single golden coloured fluid not much different in viscosity. i should mention i battered the chicken, and also lost a fried cheese stick in the boiling oil when i was cooking. the oil has food in it, but not lots, and it sinks to the bottom as sludge
because i had lots of oil left, and i'd bought and eaten another jar of pickles, i repeated the same experiment minus the actual cooking, using the same oil but new petro diesel, a few days later.
same thing. then
i topped up the jars with warmed by sun leftover oil. now there are two similar jars. although the remaining oil in the pot is getting grimier as it nears bottom, the gravity-fed-sock filter method (albeit slow) yielded
a clear, seemingly stable mixture, like golden kerosine. no soapy nuggets or filmy weirdness or chunks, twice. i was impressed. over almost a week there has been no change in either jar - both eyeballed 50/50 mixes of petro diesel and waste vegetable oil.
i have posted some of this on youtube(dot)com/dancarrigan, nothing fancy.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:34 AM   #13
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thanks for posting the results of the expierement....i was curious what the outcome would be
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:02 PM   #14
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wvo update

hey now;
just thought i'd check in. it's funny how all these posts are about the gear
involved but i've been filtering restaurant oil through j-cloths straight into my engine with great results. right now there's maybe 25% petro in my tank and the rest deep fry oil, put in at about 2.5 gallons at a time. i'll guess and say i'm getting 25 instead of 30 mpg on my 240d benz with a slight loss of hp.
so my "gear" is currently a 1/2 gallon water jug, truncated by pocket knife, as a bailer-type scoop, a funnel, and 5 gal. bucket although the bucket is redundant if i put wvo right in instead of filtering it elsewhere. the jay cloths are help in place by rubber bands i got cutting asparagus somewhere and saved. all wvo fuelings have been random and eyeballed.
the engine has started repeated after low 30 degree weather at night, warming to 60-70 degrees during day (it's nw florida).
i don't need large volumes for this engine.
remember, i checked the viscosity during the experiments before running the mixtures and was satisfied enough to go proceed.
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:32 PM   #15
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The reason for heating is to make the fuel atomize properly above and beyond just the nice flow characteristics. I can understand you've had many trouble-free miles, but have you ever pulled the injector pump or the injectors to look for signs of damage to the mirror finishes in the pump or coking on the injectors? That would be my biggest concern.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:14 AM   #16
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Re: diesel engine injectors for svo?

My concern too would be with the injection parts. I don't care how much I save if its too soon going to cost me an $800 IP.

Interesting thread though, I am planning on converting a 6.9 non turbo international as soon as I get it running well (it's knocking right now and I'm afraid it will need top end overhaul, but that's a whole different story.

In my conversion (of which I'll post more in a more appropriate thread) I will use separate tanks and switch to veggie when hot, back to diesel well before stopping I want to be as nice as I can to my injection system. One of my concerns was the possibility of contaminating/mixing in small amounts from the return line. I do plan on switching the return as well, but given that changing filters I used a whole gallon of diesel to prefil the Racor water separator, the secondary and the primary filter, I would expect the switch to take quite a while. During this flush time, while I am fishing fluid from the "switched to" tank, I'm returning that gallon worth of "switched from tank fluid" to the same tank.

I was wondering if small amounts of diesel would be bad/problematic in the veggie tank (and I'm glad this tread is telling me that should not be a problem at all) and I would like to avoid returning any WVO to the diesel tank at all (even though it still sounds like it would be acceptable). I'm thinking of using two SEPARATE three way solenoid valves (not the fancy 6 nippled one): one for the feed and one for the return, the return would be wired to a timer so that it switches immediately when going from Diesel to WVO but would switch XXX? minutes after the feed solenoid when switching from WVO to Diesel. The same timer (probably home made electronics) would power as an alarm should I turn the bus off before that time.

Any thought on this concept? Am I way over-thinking this?


Also, what are general thoughts on mixing diesel additives or things like sea-foam with veggie oil every now and then to clean the injection system or even on a regular basis to help with viscosity? I think I'll experiment a lot with pickle jars once I get to that point.
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:01 PM   #17
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Re: diesel engine injectors for svo?

Diesel is a solvent and will not hurt your veggie oil at all if a small amount mixes in. Additives such as mineral spirits to thin out the veggie or a combination fuel treatment and cetane booster will not hurt at all either.

The switch will take surprisingly little time. Those fuel pumps return A LOT of fuel and FAST. 5 minutes would probably be sufficient, but 10 minutes wouldn't hurt either. There are various arguments on idling when you stop to let the turbo cool. I always do just because it can't hurt anything. If you let it idle for 5-10 minutes at the destination then that should be ample time for the system to purge.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:29 PM   #18
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Re: diesel engine injectors for svo?

Well, non turbo here but anyway...

I'm sure it doesn't take long to circulate the gallon that's in the filter, at first I can probably put a transparent section of return line to time how long it takes at idle, that would be my timer set time. What I am concerned with is that one gallon is not such a small amount depending on how full my tanks are. For what I gathered it's not going to be a problem to return a gallon of diesel in the oil tank, it might even help keeping the lines clean ;), but I'm not sure I want to return a gallon of veggie in the diesel tank, I'm into the idea of keeping that side clean diesel. Plus of course I'm into the idea of the timer 'cause I'm a geek I'm even thinking of using the same timer to keep the engine on and flash a warning light if I attempt to shut the engine off before it's time (of course there would be one more switch in the starship's panel by that flashy light to override that) then I could walk away from the bus, even lock it without the keys in it and it would shut itself off after the preset amount of time

... So, am I overthinking this?
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:59 PM   #19
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Re: diesel engine injectors for svo?

I guess I fail to see how you would return veggie to the diesel tank.

1. Start up with return and supply to diesel
2. Switch return and supply to veggie when warm
3. Switch supply to diesel, purge lines, shut down, and switch return to diesel.

Unless you switched the return immediately to diesel when you're purging there is no way you would get veggie in the diesel. Sure, you'd get diesel in the veggie, but a gallon shouldn't matter. Your tank is never going to be that full (or rather shouldn't be from a safety standpoint). Even if you did get some veggie in the diesel...like I said before, diesel is one hell of a solvent and you would never know the veggie was in there unless you really pumped it in there which isn't a possibility since it would just be the remainder in the lines when you purged at shut down.
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Old 03-09-2008, 12:13 PM   #20
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Re: diesel engine injectors for svo?

Yeah I just blew my ip and turns out the injectors probably had a lot to do with it. They had 230K miles miles on it 15K of veggie. My ip homie said that they were to the point that he doesn't think that they were opening and closing properly and thus took out the piston, which shrapneled into the rotor and springs etc. I have learned the lesson that in a diesel injector condition plays a very important role, more important in my opinion than in a gas motor.
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