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Old 02-09-2007, 08:06 PM   #1
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diesel engine injectors for svo?

hi;
i drive a diesel an old (82)mercedes & i've been looking at diesel buses. the mercedes has taken b99 with no changes or new filters even, and loved it. (mythbusters put svo right in the tank). are buses the same: no engine adaption -other than a fuel line junction (and another tank or two and subsequent plumbing, pumps and heaters)? there's a site that talks about engine injectors. so: are they necessary, or no?
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:31 AM   #2
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no special injectors. I did wvo on a 77 mb diesel and on y 1991 ford skoolie and subsuquently my 1991 international skoolie.

i've often thought that the larger engines probably have bigger holes in the injectors and could therefore get away with running fuel that is less "clean" than smaller motors like the vw's or the mb. Since the vw and mb diesels are so happy on wvo a bus should like it even more....but bigger holes in the injectors is complete conjecture on my part.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #3
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thanks

thanks. obvious it seems, i never thought of that - bigger holes. i also read your thread on the impracticability of full time operation on wvo.
my second (rookie) question is: can't the two different liquids, dino-"d" and wvo can go straight into the motor, why can't they go in the same tank, albeit one being prefiltered, even within certain proportion limits if required - i.e. 80/20? this would really simplify the whole thing and even provision for scarcity of reclaimable fuel/funds. when i started my mb on biofuel, i "broke in" the system by running increasing amounts of biodiesel, starting with 20%, and eventually 99% after a few weeks. why not with wvo too?
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #4
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I think you should be fine with the viscosity if the two actually mix. But if one floats on top of the other due to them not wanting to mix you will still have to heat up the WVO.

Pour some together in a clear jar and see what happens after it sits for a while.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:35 AM   #5
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maybe this could be a "weather permitting" kind of strategy, the heat part effecting viscosity.
i was going to mix them both in a jar today just to see, literally.
one final question: why not paint a tank black and put it up on the roof where it can get solar gain and then gravity feed? or a clever fabricator could customize one to go on the hood, if it was built wide and flat enough, and catch the rising heat from the engine. why not go with the flow!
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:52 PM   #6
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Running a tank on the roof was one thought I had. My issue was with that was the logistics. Just pumping from the back of my pickup to the filtration setup in the bus itself was slow going with my pump. 10 feet of total head is a lot with that particular fluid. The pump only makes 70 feet of head and it rated using water. I'm sure with the correct pump it would work. It might be slow though. I think you'd want to set it up like a passive water beater with some coils in a greenhouse of sorts. I'm sure someone could make it work really well. I just wasn't going to be the one to try.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:02 PM   #7
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Has anyone thought of using compressed air or a lawnmower engine connected to a hydraulic pump to move this stuff around. You have plenty of space around your bus to mount a small engine and then you could a couple lines of hose that you can use to move the oil between containers.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #8
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transfering wvo

I think that the key issue would the type of pump, a hydraulic, aka positive displacement type of pump would be more desireable than a centrifical or flexable impeller type pump in this application. you would still have to preheat the wvo to a point that it flows so that the pump could pick it up on the suction side.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:57 PM   #9
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injecters

think of the injectors as a spray nozzle with a spring loaded valve that opens at a given pressure, the hole/tip is sized to control the atomization/spray pattern. the injection pump controls the amount/volume and timing of the fuel shot at a pressure high enough to pop the injector open and spray fuel into the combustion chamber.
The clearances/tolerances inside injection pumps and injectors are so close that the internal components are serviced, assembled and calibrated in pressurized clean rooms to prevent contamination. Their is not any clearance for junk/particles to go thru the pump or injecters, a good filter system is cheap to maintain compaqred to fuel system repairs.
The newer electronic engines without IP's use engine oil pressure to amplify fuel pressure in the injectors and the computer controls the timing and duration/amount of fuel to be injected into the combustion chamber, again the tip controls the spray pattern and atomization of the fuel. The electronic control allows for higher pressures to be used for better atomization/more complete burning of the fuel, and multiple injection events to maximize performance(like a MSD ignition box for a gas engine), the computer moniters the other related engine parameters temps,speed throttle position etc and adjusts the fuel distribution according to need to maximize fuel use and performance
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:53 AM   #10
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one downside to mixing wvo and diesel is that the law requires a person to pay road tax on any fuel mixed in with your diesel. I forget the exact wording. I think the chance that this actually becomes an issue in the real world to be slim, but running wvo mixed with diesel does require you pay road tax on the wvo.

Running straight wvo does not require road tax, at least not in michigan.

On long road trips in the summer, i have successfully burned about 50% wvo/diesel mix in the same non-heated tank without any issues at all. I burned over 100 gallons of wvo on my way home from nevada this way. One advantage of the mix is that there was almost no noticable difference in hill climbing ability. Straight wvo is definately noticable when it comes to lack of power for climbing hills. It doesn't take much wvo in the tank at all to make things smell like veggie. I pre-heated the wvo in the veggie tank. when i stopped for fuel, i'd add about 20 gallons wvo and 20 gallons of diesel. My 110 volt high volume sump pump made quick work of transfering the fuel. I had to drive 2,300 miles one way. The last couple of fuel stops i filled up exclusively with diesel to help clean out the system.

I did this during early september so the temperatures were 80+ degrees.

I had no problems short or long term, but the test only involved about 100 gallons.
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