sKOOLie on Waste Vegetable Oil

skoolie_grease · 04-17-2005, 06:16 PM

Couple of things up front -

1) I'm gonna try to keep this as cheap as possible
2) Don't want any high science or expensive tools involved
3) Use what is available. Alter as little as needed. Have fun.

I did a couple of searches on this site and here are the topics w/ info:

http://www.skoolie.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223
http://www.skoolie.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=330
http://www.skoolie.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=406
http://www.skoolie.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=614

I'm starting from scratch, so hopefully this will map out an easy, cheap way for others to do the same, if they're so inclined.

For starters, I know (or at least understand) that you need a Diesel engine to make this work. I've got that taken care of w/ a 1992 7.3L International Short Bus.

From what I gather there are other major components that make up the system: tank, filter, oil fuel lines, heater, and mabe a few other odds and ends I'm forgetting (maybe a lot).

But since you gotta start with the first step, I'm looking to mount a tank somewhere on the bus. Preferrably, it would go underneath so it's not adding any extra 'obstacles'. There's a few good spaces underneath the bus.

The place I'm going to put the tank needs to be w/in range of the heating system, which leads me to the first real question at hand:

You know that rear heater that is a little box on the floor of the bus that has a fan and a few hoses that go back to it? Well, can I somehow use that to heat the oil in the tank before I send it up to the engine? I figure since it's already back there and has heat, it would seem like the most logical, easy method to heat my oil.

I thought I read something by lapeer20m that mentioned taking it apart and just using the coil to heat the oil. Is this the same heater we're talking about?

Thanks for any contributions to something that seems like a worthy project.

pixie · 04-23-2005, 09:54 PM

Hi,
We are running our bus on veggie oil,though at present we need to fix the tank ( a semi truck tire took it out). We have been doing our own system,as oposed to one of the kits.

It's not perfect,and we are still working out the "bugs" and fine tuning everything.

Anyway,maybe you can get some ideas from what we did so far, we have pictures and explanations for everything......

http://www.enchantedgypsy.blogspot.com/

Just scroll down a few posts to see what we did.Like I said it is a work in progress,so any ideas are welcome.

lapeer20m · 04-24-2005, 07:49 PM

I use the coolant lines for my rear heater to heat my veggie tank. I also made my own kit.....and i think even the new kits require some fine tuning.

I still have my rear bus heater, i just added the tank heater inline. My bus comes equiped with an auxilliary 12 volt coolant pump, so pushing coolant through an extra 10 feet of cooland line wasnt an issue.

remember that extra coolant accessories must be installed in series and not in paralell.

TravelingMan · 04-25-2005, 10:34 AM

Has anyone thought to use the fuel tanks off a semi they usually have fuel heaters built in. I think one with a couple dents would go for a reasonable price.

lapeer20m · 04-25-2005, 03:08 PM

I have never seen the actual heater for a diesel tank, but here are my thoughts......

I know it is an option to have fuel tank heaters on semi's. I assume they are electric. The question is: will they heat the contents of the tank to 130 or more degrees? The answer is probably not unless you do some modifications. ie: tinker with the thermostat. It would be an interesting expieremnt to find a truck with a tank heater and see how hot the fuel will get.

IT seems unlikely that the heaters in stock configuration would raise the temperature of the fuel above it's flash point. For diesel, that's ~ 120 degrees. Flash point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid gives off enough vapor to ignite under normal atmospheric pressures.

I still believe that using engine coolant is the best method for heating wvo. I've yet to see any good alternatives

TravelingMan · 04-25-2005, 05:42 PM

They are heated with coolent and can get very hot if you forget them. The tanks come with a fuel return and coolent shutoff valve on the back side of the tank and I occasional turned off the wrong one.

either I had one empty tank or hot fuel.

lapeer20m · 04-25-2005, 08:01 PM

I stand corrected....

since they are heated with coolant, then i'm sure they'd make excellent wvo tanks.

skoolie_grease · 04-30-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m

I use the coolant lines for my rear heater to heat my veggie tank. ...
I still have my rear bus heater, i just added the tank heater inline. My bus comes equiped with an auxilliary 12 volt coolant pump, so pushing coolant through an extra 10 feet of cooland line wasnt an issue.

Yeah, I'll have to agree with you. No reason to destroy a good heater.

pixie's link to the "tricore heater" system that seems to be the simplest and easiest and cheapest way to heat the oil on it's way to the tank. If you haven't yet, scroll down about a third of the way to where it says "The lowdown on the veg":

http://www.enchantedgypsy.blogspot.com/

The hot coolant flows back to the tank and circles back around, I think, while the grease flows to the engine *around the copper coolant tubes*. They've got it rigged so the coolant also does a few wraps around his 55 gallon plastic drum. Pretty good labeled pics, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m

remember that extra coolant accessories must be installed in series and not in paralell.

Ooh, yeah. Thanks for that tip. Don't need any more adventure than a sKOOLie already provides.

skoolie_grease · 04-30-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixie

Hi,
We are running our bus on veggie oil,though at present we need to fix the tank ( a semi truck tire took it out). We have been doing our own system,as oposed to one of the kits.

It's not perfect,and we are still working out the "bugs" and fine tuning everything.

Anyway,maybe you can get some ideas from what we did so far, we have pictures and explanations for everything......

http://www.enchantedgypsy.blogspot.com/

Just scroll down a few posts to see what we did.Like I said it is a work in progress,so any ideas are welcome.

Big thanks for this documentation pixie! It's a beautiful design. Were you able to repair the tank from when you rolled over the semi tire? Those things come outa nowhere and swervin's the last thing you want to do.

lapeer20m · 05-01-2005, 01:05 PM

I am so impressed ! That is quite possibly the most ingenious veggie oil heating system i've seen yet.

BRILLIANT !!!

Ryan Grimm · 05-01-2005, 09:15 PM

Looking at it, it reminds me of the way they pump sulphur from underground deposits:
The inside tube goes down to the sulphur deposit deep underground. They pump boiling water down it, and it heats/melts/dissolves the sulphur, which comes up between the inside/outside tubes, and discharges into a cooling pond.

Yeah, I did a report for 7th grade, been a while, obviously.............

Brilliant, Pixie!

busone · 05-01-2005, 10:12 PM

That is a brilliant idea. I do wonder if corrosion will be a problem because of dissimilar metals?

Ryan Grimm · 05-02-2005, 07:46 AM

If you're worried about galvanic reaction due to dissimilar metals, I recommend trying "dielectric connectors", I THINK these are used to isolate the water heater from the copper supply/output lines on your home water heater.

Basically, they screw into the top of the water heater instead of regular pipe nipples. They reduce corrosion problems, IIRC.
Use them between the copper/brass and the iron pipe.

They come in a two-pack, any home center or hardware store worth it's salt should have them.

BTW, has anyone tried mounting zincs to their bus, like they do with boats? I would think they would add a LOT of corrosion protection.
I'm going to post this question/topic in another area of the Forum, titled "Corrosion Protection".

Kalanu · 05-07-2005, 11:51 AM

Howdy,

I don't have a school bus, I have a box truck converted. but I have been on plenty of hippie bus crews, and have a few friends with buses. The reason I posted is that I just learned veggie oil conversion and am eager to share what i learned. when i was first looking to convert the truck i wished there were somewhere i could go and see it in action and have someone teach me. as it turned out, i had to learn from the internet. http://biodiesel.infopop.cc was where i got most of my info.
So what im getting at is that I'm in Corvallis, oregon, and biofuels is what I do. If you have a diesel and you want to convert to veggie oil, come over and i'll show you how. this isn't a sales pitch. you have to buy the materials for the conversion (not from me) and do the work, but i'll show you for free just cause this is what i love to do. I have no experience converting a bus, but I had no experience converting a Mercedes before I di, either. I have internet access, so the answer to an VO question is at our fingertips, and there are tons of people with conversions out there willing to give advice. I have room here on the land to park your bus for a few days while we do the conversion.
my website is http://www.windrift.us/dreamerbiofuels, and my email is on there. It also talks about the process of my VO conversion.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Kalanu · 05-07-2005, 11:53 AM

I also build biodiesel processors out of hot water heaters. I'm mounting mine in my truck, and it's also possible to mount one in a school bus, as these designs are fumeless...

skoolie_grease · 05-07-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalanu

I have room here on the land to park your bus for a few days while we do the conversion.
my website is http://www.windrift.us/dreamerbiofuels, and my email is on there. It also talks about the process of my VO conversion.
Hope to hear from you soon.

That's quite an offer, Kalanu, one I will take, though it would be a few months down the road as I'm in Maine now, but heading west in September. I really appreciate the offer and invitation. I will most certainly drop in when I'm in Oregon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalanu

I also build biodiesel processors out of hot water heaters. I'm mounting mine in my truck, and it's also possible to mount one in a school bus, as these designs are fumeless...

That's really interesting, too. It sparks a question in my mind:

Why would you go biodiesel if you have a working WVO? I'm sure there's a good reason, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. It just seems like a more complex and ingredient/component intensive process than just heating oil and firing it in the engine. Perhaps it is because some diesel engines just don't do oil well and thus, biodiesel is the next best option?

I'd be thrilled to examine your processors as well, especially cause they're made out of what so many throw away.

Thanks again for the info and offer. I'll certainly give you notice as to when I'll be in the area.

Kalanu · 05-07-2005, 10:57 PM

In order to run VO, you need to start up and shut down in diesel, or biodiesel. In many ways bio-diesel is a pain in the ass, but it's 75 cents a gallon to home brew, and if you were to pay someone $10 (yourself, let's say) an hour to do it, it would still cost around $1.80. So screw dino-diesel. I like to have the processor on the truck to demonstrate for others. If a person only does short hop driving, like a short commute to work or a short trip to the store, it may not be enough time to heat up your veg system. So bio-diesel is good for them. Owners of newer cars have warranties that won't let them put more than 20% in their tank without voiding their warrenty (what a crock) and so it's good for them. And good for me cause I'm cheap. Rather do the work to brew than pay $hell.
The website has pictures of the processors, as well as a parts list (in photo form, because if you're salvaging, you can't just ask a pile of trash if it has a 3/4" elbow in it if you've never seen one, like at the hardware store).

Kalanu · 05-07-2005, 11:21 PM

Oh, and dig this...
we also plan on using the hot water heater to heat the waste oil before filtering. Makes it easier to filter, and if you get it up to a hot enough temp. 150F, and leave it there 8-12 hours (yeah, means plugging into non-renewable 120V outlets, but I'm working on it..) you boil out any water in you crap waste oil, which is super important. Our truck system, once we've got it developed, will also work well for buses. A collection tank we call the 'dirty' tank we fill straight from the dumpster. It heats the oil and pushes it through a series of filters before it gets to the feed tank. Can't get water in it though. You can test if dumpster grease has water by grabbing a cup, putting it on the stove and bringing it to 100C (boiling point of water) and if it bubbles, it's wet. And don't stick your hose too far into the dumpster. water wants to get away from grease and will head for the bottom of the dumpster. I like to go first thing in the morning when before a place opens. That's when it's coldest, and you can also see how bad the grease is by the viscosity at this lower temp, and you can be fairly sure that it's been around 8 hours or so since they threw any grease in, time for a small amount of settling.
But I'm babbling.
one last thing. check out my links page http://www.windrift.us/dreamerbiofuels/links.htm
I am obsessed with biofuels and have put a lot of time into the site, and the links page kicks ass, I must say.

pixie · 05-13-2005, 11:03 PM

Hi,
Thanks guys for the nice words,but I cannot take all the credit for this. Our friend Greg Archembault helped Moss and I a lot on this and he really is the brains behind the system.

The only problems we have with it are the manual shut off valves which seem to let in a lot of air.Moss is replacing the multitude of brass fittings with simple hose clamp fittings and fuel line hose,also changing the valves to a six port valve.

You see,when we went to put it all together we could not find a lot of the fittings so we had to do all these strange fittings to get to the size we need.

Anyway,we will do an updtae when we change things and report how it all works out.......Pix

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