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Old 08-08-2008, 02:12 AM   #1
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WVO against federal law

WVO against federal law

What the hell is wrong with our laws. Why would the Feds make saving the earth illegal. A growing trend across the country to help save $ on gas and to have a clean burning fuel. But hell no the US says it is illegal and have harsh fines they have started handing out to those who convert their vehicles. I understand the need for a tax. Hell they tax everything so who would expect any less. They even have a death tax. Whats next the feds gonna break my door in and tax me cause I farted in my sleep saying I am breaking emissions laws The fines on this are insane. I was and am still planning a WVO conversion on my bus and if they think I will follow their rules then they better come get me now. As I said I understand a tax to help keep the roads up but 26 cent a gal in ga & 37 cent fed tax per gal is just nuts especially when you have to process and clean it yourself. And the federal laws & EPA say no matter what WVO is not an acceptable fuel for cars due to current emission laws.




http://www. baltimoresun. com/news/local/bay_environment/bal-te. md. svo22jun22,0,7770381. story

http://www. baltimoresun. com/news/local/bay_environment/bal-te. md. svo22jun22,0,7770381. story

http://www. mcall. com/news/local/all-a1-5fuel. 6522860jul28,0,3835468. story

http://www. spokesmanreview. com/tools/story_pf. asp?ID=251657

Does anyone know where to find the actual laws pertaining fuel types?
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:32 PM   #2
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Re: WVO against federal law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
You'd think they'd encourage it, not punish (which just proves this whole oil shortage scam is just a money-maker). We need a moron tax, we could pay the national debt & put the gov out of business.

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:03 PM   #3
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Re: WVO against federal law

I do not intend to defend the government on this wvo tax. What I think is the main problem is the supply of products such as agricultural goods and fuel is being surpassed by the growing need for these commodities by a world population that can not possibly maintain its self. I think the world will continue to produce what it can but will exhaust these commodities at a faster pace than what we can live with.

I say do what you can to enjoy the use of wvo now. I think five , ten , and twenty years will drastically change the way we live and consume food and energy. Maybe its the worrier in me.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:59 AM   #4
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Re: WVO against federal law

Your allowed to add up to 5% as an addative according to the epa.
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:11 PM   #5
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Re: WVO against federal law

We need to take the power back.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:12 PM   #6
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Re: WVO against federal law

I own a WVO company here in Colorado and so far am running okay. Everyone is right the day's of wvo are running shorter. My view is that it is a step in the right direction and is just one move to make things better. There is no silver bullet to solve our energy problems but I feel that it is up to individuals to do what they can for change. If left up to the gov't and big business it's safe to say that the general public will get the short end of the stick. I've learned that just because something is a great idea doesn't mean that we will be allowed to do it. But hey I'm gonna do it anyway because I know it's right.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:47 PM   #7
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Re: WVO against federal law

it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that wvo is "cleaner" than diesel fuel....especially the new ultra low sulpher diesel we are forced to buy now.

I once towed my car while burning wvo. A thick coating of black soot covered the car. There was a bus a couple years ago with signs all over it touting how "clean" veggie oil is, but the plumes of smoke coming out of the tailpipe seemed to tell a different story.

I don't know about the difference in chemical composition or toxicity of the exhaust between the two fuels, but in my expierence, the particulate matter is definitely worse running wvo.

does burning wvo really help save the enviroment? I did it because i'm cheap, and i like to be different.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:51 PM   #8
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Re: WVO against federal law

Well, for one thing it's not always what you can see that will kill you. Particulate matter or "the smoke" that we see coming from our vehicles is not all as ait may seem. Black smoke that of which we see comimg from diesel powered diesel engines is heavy in particulate matter as opposed to the white smoke that we see from a veggie system which, while still visible to us is low in particulate matter. That opens up the can of what kinds of particulate are we talkin' about. The problem that we have with even the cleanest diesel is the sulphur dioxide;carbon monoxide;hydrocarbons and the crazy assortment of toxic contaminants that are released when it is both burned and manufactured. The effect that this fuel has on the world and its inhabitants is staggering to say the utmost least. The "particulate matter" that is spoke of from wvo burning is actually 65% less in hydrocarbons than diesel. There is a something to that smoke though for it is 10% higher in nitrogen oxide emmissions. Does anyone care to field what nitrogen oxide does to things? Wvo burns hotter that diesel and burns more clean that diesel as a result. The simple fact is that wvo is not a toxic cocktail of chemicals that diesel is and will always be. Getting into the taxation and repetitve retaxing of a fuel which we as americans actually subsidize so that a few can control the many is something else. The whole system is set up to the point that wvo emmission standards can't play on the same field as standard oil has set up. To bring about any kind of revelation would upset the powers that be cause they done got'em fooled.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:36 PM   #9
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Re: WVO against federal law

There is also the issue of releasing carbon that has been trapped in oil deposits for millions of years as opposed to releasing carbon that has been trapped in plants for a year or less. The former raises the amount of carbon in the atmosphere and the latter just cycles the pre-existing carbon.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:58 PM   #10
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Re: WVO against federal law

The taxing issue has alot to do with it. Just like running red dyed fuel, its the same diesel as the pump, just no road tax so its a big no no. Theres alot of things you can pour into an older diesel engine that it will burn, engine oil, trans fluid, wvo etc. WVO may very well be less polluting as could tranny fluid, its just a matter of the EPA having resources to put it all to the test. It may not be though, burning does weird things to molecules. It just isnt feasible to test, approve and police every liquid an engine could burn. If usage becomes more popular, maybe they will? Unless it is commercially produced and filtered, I don't know if the new tier4 engines injection systems could handle it, which could make it go to the wayside anyways. Diesel particulates are a hot topic that the media jumped all over a couple of years ago from a few studies that showed it causes lung problems, as does sand, chicken crap etc etc. For whatever reason, they would rather have new trucks burn more fuel (regen systems) and release more CO2 to reduce particulates. This and the nonvented gas cans are two things the EPA has mandated that I just dont understand.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:33 PM   #11
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Re: WVO against federal law

Well, for what it is worth, I have been burning WVO for the last seven years. At first, I had problems with soot and clogged filters. Now, I have my setup for pre-filtering with 25 micron sock filters, final filtering with a centrifugal filter down to <1 micron particle size, and I preheat my WVO on the vehicle just before the injector pump to 145 degrees F. There is absolutely no soot (be glad to send pictures of the clean bumpers and back end on my M-B), my filters last until I normally change at 12,000 mile intervals, and I Love to watch the people in my rear-view mirror as they lift their noses, sniff, and wonder who is barbequeing somewhere.
I also heat my house with the same fuel, using a slightly modified oil furnace with a Beckett high pressure atomizing burner. It burns clean with no smoke out the chimney and keeps an old two story, 3,000 sq. ft. house toasty warm during the Winter. I am not set up to gather and process fuel on the road, because you never know what kind or quality of oil you may get, but I never really meant to go that route, so not a problem.
Last but not least, Tennessee has a couple of initiatives for alternative fuels that most states don't. The East TN Clean Fuels Coalition (ETCFC) based out of UT at Knoxville has all of the information necessary to apply as a licensed "fuel blender" allowing a tax CREDIT of $1.00 for each gallon of fuel you blend. As for the FedGov, ignore them until they come looking for you, then they still have to prove their case. Personally, I am proud to be helping the environment, reducing my carbon footprint, and refusing to support shiite-head terrorists.
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:32 PM   #12
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Re: WVO against federal law

I "fix" all my non-vented gas cans.

trying to pour a liquid out of a 5 gallon container without a vent hole is beyond ridiculous.
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:53 AM   #13
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Re: WVO against federal law

so i have a opinion on this subject...Hersey or not
fuel tax is separated into a few things...one is road tax or road repair tax thats the issue most ppl i have talked to concerning alt fuels
if your not buying fuel on the highways / byways your not paying taxes.. which means your driving on them for free which uncle sam discourages
BUT i also heard from some one who was in the military {my wifes great uncle} that major highways have to be straight every ten miles to accommodate for emergency plane landings {i.e. military} ...and that in a invasion or civil unrest type scenario the highways { I-40 } for example are to be shut down for military use and civilian use is prohibited

now it might seem that i am a tin foil hat type... which is not true { mostly} but the highway i live near was created for { I-40 } was made for moving nuclear payloads { killing route 66 in the process}
im sure that all of these factors are separate but what it ads up to is a penalty for not paying road tax on your fuel and a real one at that
i know 5 different ppl who own wvo systems and i plan on one myself but, yes it gets harder and harder to find "legal" means to find your wvo
in my honest opinion stealing a waste product should not be illegal... like what was said before on how much tax gets spent on the whole veg product its crazy to tax wvo.... imo
DISCLAIMER = i am about 8 deep into a twelve pack so bear with me .....and i know i am preaching to the choir
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:14 AM   #14
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Re: WVO against federal law

Fifteen to Twenty Minutes of talking with the manager at the location could potentially get you a supply for up to several years. It never hurts to ask. Hell, if that guy says no, he might know someone who will say yes.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:38 PM   #15
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Re: WVO against federal law

yeah smitty i see your point
if i saw sum one talk my wvo stash i would be upset
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:30 AM   #16
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Re: WVO against federal law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
I'd urge anyone before doing a WVO conversion to go out and see just how available a source of oil is. Then consider the possibillity of losing the source(s) and have enough "back-up" sources that losing one now & then won't affect their supply. I'd bet most everyone by now has heard of WVO as fuel, and restaraunt managers are seeing it as an opportunity to make some cash, or their buddies getting dibbs on the oil (or both). I could even see franchise joints selling the "oil rights" to their entire chain to a recycle company in an effort to recoupe some cash.

I''ve been 8 into a 12, and 12 into a 12....I knew where you were comin' from

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the local mcDonalds already is recycleing their grease into biodiesel for their delivery truck fleet.
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:45 AM   #17
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Re: WVO against federal law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
There is also the issue of releasing carbon that has been trapped in oil deposits for millions of years as opposed to releasing carbon that has been trapped in plants for a year or less. The former raises the amount of carbon in the atmosphere and the latter just cycles the pre-existing carbon.
Well from researching the "man made global warming" issue in reality instead of propaganda which I assume is being referenced here, carbon dioxide isn't a pollutant and isn't causing any kind of problems, enviromental dangers or temperature changes. Were actually carbon starved/at lower levels than at many times in history. It's why greenhouses are pumping in carbon dioxide to get big increases in yields and plant health/resistance to stressors, look it up. NASA says its the sun getting hotter and cooler, thats why the polar icecaps on Mars go through the same cycles the Earth has. (it's not SUV's on Mars)

But that's beside the point. They dont want you doing it because the EPA isn't interested in protecting the enviroment any more than the FDA is interested in protecting your health. Everyone works for big business. They mitigate some of the threats but selectively enforce things in favor of whose really in control. One of the original reason for the alcohol prohibition was to stop farmers making their own fuel which prevented profits to big oil. As WVO grows in popularity it will become an increasing enforcement issue, though i'm guessing it's not even known to the majority of people or police yet unless you do something to attract the interest on the federal agency level. (like living in a state with regular emissions checks may tip them off but otherwise why would they even know normally) Alternately i'd guess state tax concerns from police would be more of an issue most of the time, maybe if they were shown a logbook of miles driven on WVO and checks sent to the government agencies relevant to road tax revenue (if honest) should avoid problems in all but draconian states.
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:04 PM   #18
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Re: WVO against federal law

I have to agree with the above post. The ETCFC (East TN Clean Fuels Coalition) is located right up the road in Knoxville, and operates under the auspices of University of TN. They push for use of WVO, with or without getting a fuel processor permit.
They will certainly tell you HOW to get one if you wish, but they don't withold WVO processing and usage information if you don't have it.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:31 PM   #19
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Re: WVO against federal law

No modification is necessary with almost all diesels. Some of the newer injector ports are made of metal alloys that are not designed to handle the increased heat of veg fuel. This really is only on the newer stuff. The soot that comes from some setups is a product of improper or unfinished filtering(the soot is from burning things that you don't want in the oil before it goes through your bus heart.). clean fuel=clean burn so long as: the fuel is the proper temp. So, corect filtering and the correct temp being maintained are the keys to clean burning. And whatever you do don't go trying to burn hydrogenated veg or canola for it will shorten the life of your bus heart in the same way it clogs the human heart/arteries. Healthy fuel= healthy exhaust!


P.s. Just a reminder of the 26 different toxins known to cause cancer that are found in even the cleanest of diesel.
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