***CRASH*** Putting State Farm to the test...

[OlgaAK]

Two nights ago I was in the back of my skoolie and someone hit it with a truck/trailer combo. There is damage to mirrors, metal, paint, and a slow leak under the engine.

My skoolie has been registered as MH and Automobile in California. I have it insured through a State Farm agent who was recommended on this forum.

The interior has been converted but the outside is still school bus yellow and the police officer kept using the word "bus" despite me showing them that legally it is not a bus and that there is an important difference.

The driver was unlicensed and was borrowing the vehicle and trailer to live in. I'm skeptical that the owner's insurance is actually going to cover this. I'm glad that I let Joe talk me into getting the collision deductible waiver and uninsured motorist coverage, as they are probably going to be needed. My skoolie is not safe to drive and will need to be towed to a specialty mechanic. The parts are going to need to be special-ordered. I will not be allowed to live in the skoolie at the mechanic while waiting for the parts, so I'll need a temporary place to stay. I will be missing planned travel for work, so I have lost income as well.

Fingers crossed that State Farm actually comes through on this and covers everything that they are saying they will, including a rental of similar size while mine is in the shop. I'll keep you all updated as this goes along...

[HazMatt]

That sucks like Electrolux! Helluvathing...
Fingers crossed they're better'n a good neighbor...

[OlgaAK]

Update: it's Allstate, not State Farm. They are telling me that it could be 30 days or more to get an answer about the other guy's insurance.

[peteg59]

30 days??? He or his "friend", either has insurance coverage or doesn't. Definitely should not take 30 days to find out!!!
Is CA a "no fault" state?
Sorry to hear of your dilemma, and good luck on the resolution...

[OlgaAK]

The issue apparently is that the owner of the truck/trailer uses multiple phone numbers and currently is not answering the one that their insurance company has. The insurance company refuses to accept or deny liability without speaking to the policyholder.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Hate to say it, but chances other the other insurance company won't pay, which will mean your insurance will have to pay and go after them. Reason being the moron driving was unlicensed, which they use as cause not to pay the claim.

[HazMatt]

The scuzz bucket was undoubtedly warned by his chum, so isn't answering that particular burner fon...

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by HazMatt

The scuzz bucket was undoubtedly warned by his chum, so isn't answering that particular burner fon...

And after being warned, telling his numbnutz buddy who was driving...

[peteg59]

Some states would actually go after the registered owner for allowing an unlicensed operator to operate their vehicle.
Probably happens way too often in CA for DA's to prosecute?

It is actually SOP for an insurance company to talk to their policyholder before acting on any claim, so be patient. If nothing happens by tomorrow, a call back to your ins. carrier to get a rental going should be in order, as you do have uninsured coverage...

[cadillackid]

this is a tough one... did you open a claim on the other insurance company direct or go through yours? this similar situation happened to me years ago with a car.. other insurance company didnt want to pay because the insured wasnt driving the vehicle that hit me.. his policy was designed only for the owner to drive..



the owner of course said "I have no idea why he was driving.. its unauthorized.. he shouldnt have been"..


these tactics create delay.. so of course I needed my car back so I had to pay my deductible and have my insurance company with their big fancy lawyers go tear these 2 up..



it was months before i finally got my deductible back...(my ins company finally beat theirs in court and so I got my deductible back)..

-Christopher

[OlgaAK]

My insurance adjuster gave me the wrong claim number for the policyholder's insurance (Farmers). Reason being that the policyholder's insurance card was involved in a different collision involving four vehicles a few days prior and thought that my claim was a duplicate of that one. I guess Farmers didn't believe that their policyholder would be so irresponsible as to be involved in multiple accidents involving at least seven vehicles in under a week. Allstate (my insurance) didn't catch this despite talking to Farmers at least twice. It took a call from me directly to clear this up and now I've opened a claim with Farmers directly.

Because the unlicensed driver decided to do a hit and run after I asked for his license and insurance info, the police became involved. They found the guy and it turns out that he and his wife rely on the policyholder who is his "imployer of sorts" and who made him promise to never give her current phone number to anyone. I reminded him that this is potentially a serious legal issue and he became a lot more cooperative and agreed to speak to the insurance company and ask the policyholder to do so as well. I am concerned that she is taking advantage of his vulnerability.

The driver and his wife are very poor and I do not want to make their lives harder by asking the police to press charges against him for the hit and run when I'm sure it was just because he was panicking and fearful. I spoke to his wife privately and gave her my contact information and offered to take her to get a phone of her own and to help her register for services through some organizations that I have worked with. I really want to find some way to have this accident turn out to benefit at least that woman by drawing attention to the bad situation she is in. I'm scared that she will be even more vulnerable if her husband is arrested.

The more information I get, the more reckless this policyholder seems to be. She owns at least five vehicles that she loans out to people who are very vulnerable and it seems that there is some sort of work that she has them do in exchange which I presume is not fully legal. It upsets me so much to think that she has resources and is putting the risks onto people who aren't as fortunate as she is. It seems like there is a lot more to this situation that has yet to come out.

I'm really hoping that I can navigate this in a way that protects not just myself but also can help the other people's lives get better. When the man found out that I didn't want to press charges, he told me that it was "the nicest thing anyone has ever done to him." How can we accept a world where the kindest thing is for someone to choose not to have your life ruined because you panicked and made a bad decision? I have been praying about this a lot and I feel really troubled by the human aspect of everything. But I guess I gotta put my feelings aside for now and go get the solar panels ready to be put on this weekend. Meanwhile that man and his wife are probably sleeping on the street. This world is a hard place. I pray that I can in some way make it less hard for at least one person.

[OkieRose]

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

Update: it's Allstate, not State Farm. They are telling me that it could be 30 days or more to get an answer about the other guy's insurance.

It could take 30 days yes, but if you have full collision insurance, then Allstate should start the claim, fix your MH and then they go after the other parties insurance fir recompense. What state did the accident occur in?

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

Because the unlicensed driver decided to do a hit and run after I asked for his license and insurance info, the police became involved. They found the guy and it turns out that he and his wife rely on the policyholder who is his "imployer of sorts" and who made him promise to never give her current phone number to anyone.

The driver and his wife are very poor and I do not want to make their lives harder by asking the police to press charges against him for the hit and run when I'm sure it was just because he was panicking and fearful.

The more information I get, the more reckless this policyholder seems to be.

As kindly as I can put it... [moderator edit]

I have been hit by uninsured or uninsured drivers at least twice, in the middle of one now that will possibly be underinsured. The idiot policyholder should be held liable. I do not loan my vehicle out to anyone who is not on my policy, especially an unlicensed driver. Kinda hard to prove unauthorized use with what you've been told so far.

And the idiot who was driving? Should have known better than to be driving without a license, especially in someone else's vehicle. Stick it to 'em. There's something to be said for compassion, but you can't fix stupid. The policyholder and the driver both know better. And if they don't, methinks there is no time like the present to learn.

Seriously, if you let this pass, they'll do it to someone else. Who's to say this is the first time?

[Sehnsucht]

As much as I don't like it, I have to agree Cheese Wagon because the driver is still responsible for their own recklessness and failing to comply with the law by obtaining proper licensing and insurance for themselves. Without getting political about it, this is the same issue I and many have with the current border crisis, because there's a legal way to immigrate and jumping a border isn't the way. People who want to flaunt the laws and requirements just because they don't like then or haven't the means isn't justification so to do and ultimately hurt all of us, especially those of us who strive to abide by the rules, even the ones we don't agree with.

[Booyah45828]

I'm 100% with cheese wagon as well.

The bad decision was made to drive a vehicle without a license. I doubt this is the first time they've done it. So they've made a number of bad decisions and this was the only time they were caught. The policyholder is an enabler as well. You can't tell me she's clueless in all of this.

Then they hit you, and decided to try and run for it? No way. $hit like this is why insurance is higher for the rest of us.

No thanks.

I have compassion, but too many idiots skirt the law, knowing they have nothing to lose and won't be held accountable. Then the cost of living goes up for all of us.

[OlgaAK]

My main concern is for the wife. She was not driving and doesn't even have a phone of her own. I want to make sure that she gets some level of support quickly before anything happens regarding her husband (the driver). I don't have much sympathy for him, but I don't think that he will be able to do anything of use to anyone if he is in jail. Out of jail, he can at least answer my texts about the name of the policyholder. I worry a lot about the wife. She did nothing wrong, but now she is losing her home and her husband may go to jail regardless of what I do because of all the other people involved. I place most of the responsibility for this on the policyholder, as she knowingly loaned a vehicle to someone who cannot legally drive it. She also seems to be taking advantage of vulnerable people, and that's really disgusting to me.

Regarding insurance, yes, I have collision coverage, but I'm still hesitant that Allstate will actually cover my skoolie once their appraiser comes and sees the color. The agent said that he's not aware of anyone with a skoolie having filed a claim and that I will be the "guinea pig." I don't like being the Guinea pig when the tow alone is $800.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I guess Farmers didn't believe that their policyholder would be so irresponsible as to be involved in multiple accidents involving at least seven vehicles in under a week.

Where there's smoke, there's typically fire. This should tell you something...

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I reminded him that this is potentially a serious legal issue and he became a lot more cooperative and agreed to speak to the insurance company and ask the policyholder to do so as well.

You had to "remind him" of this? I mean what are they, children? Its not like they don't know hit-and-run is illegal.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I am concerned that she is taking advantage of his vulnerability.

And she's cashing in on your sympathy, it seems. Think its the first time?

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

When the man found out that I didn't want to press charges, he told me that it was "the nicest thing anyone has ever done to him."

Is _this_ the first time?

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

How can we accept a world where the kindest thing is for someone to choose not to have your life ruined because you panicked and made a bad decision?

More like, how can you blame "the world" for the bad decisions of a couple people? You're robbing them of any agency, let alone culpability, by thinking this way.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

Meanwhile that man and his wife are probably sleeping on the street. This world is a hard place.

In California. Where a good portion of the homeless have cell phones with broadband internet. Cry me a river...

People who try to climb up out of these situations and make better decisions end up doing better, typically. They're not without resources to turn things around for themselves.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I pray that I can in some way make it less hard for at least one person.

I think you know the difference between mistakes and objectively bad decisions. You're a victim of these people- collateral damage of their bad choices. Your misguided empathy will most likely not help them solve their problems, but rather lead and enable them to repeat these mistakes. Remember, it might not have been you- it might have been an old lady parked on the side of the road or a woman with a stroller. They could have ended someone else's life. Do you want to enable that? Who are you going to empathize with at the funeral?

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

Regarding insurance, yes, I have collision coverage, but I'm still hesitant that Allstate will actually cover my skoolie once their appraiser comes and sees the color. The agent said that he's not aware of anyone with a skoolie having filed a claim and that I will be the "guinea pig." I don't like being the Guinea pig when the tow alone is $800.

Let us know how this goes. I'm happy to pay a premium for good protection, I just want to know it works.

[OlgaAK]

The policyholder is not the wife of the driver. I have little sympathy for the driver but I don't see how asking for him to be arrested would affect the insurance claim or the policyholder's liability. I have minimal sympathy for the policyholder, who should not be doing whatever shady stuff she is up to. It is the wife of the driver who is blameless in this and she's the person who is most likely to suffer if her husband is arrested. I don't see any benefit to this guy being sent to jail. I think it will result in the wife ending up destitute in the street.

I understand that my perspective on guilt, punishment, revenge, etc is not the typical American one. It is heavily influenced by my Christian pacifist faith. To forgive someone who deserves forgiveness is nothing. To forgive someone who does not deserve it is to honor God, who forgives me for the wrongs that I do despite my persistent egoism and selfishness. I think that the world could be a much kinder place if we were more willing to forgive and help one another despite our imperfections and evil natures. The police and criminal system is not designed for transformative justice, so I will continue to seek a different path so that the wife is not further endangered and also that the policyholder and the husband accept responsibility and change their reckless behavior.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I don't see any benefit to this guy being sent to jail.

He wont be able to be out driving and kill somebody.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I understand that my perspective on guilt, punishment, revenge, etc is not the typical American one.

I'm really not sure the relevance here of this statement? You have your sense of ethics as do we. It makes for interesting discussion.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

It is heavily influenced by my Christian pacifist faith.

I am a Christian but not a pacifist- I am a Libertarian, the distinguishing characteristic being that while I don't condone violence I do not find the use of force to be unethical when resisting coercion. Also keep in mind that I'm not a fan of the state.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

To forgive someone who deserves forgiveness is nothing. To forgive someone who does not deserve it is to honor God, who forgives me for the wrongs that I do despite my persistent egoism and selfishness.

The interesting part of this to me is, where is the line between forgiveness, and ignoring bad behavior? Is any response to bad behavior acceptable? Would you punish a child for misbehavior in some way?

For me, the point at which forgiveness is applied matters. I think its reasonable to call that "redemption". The Christian in me says not to judge another, that's up to The Almighty but at the same time forgiveness cannot be applied in a way that mimics indifference. If everyone acts indifferently, sinful behavior, or behaviors that do not lead an individual to happiness, has a potential to become a social norm.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I think that the world could be a much kinder place if we were more willing to forgive and help one another despite our imperfections and evil natures.

Two things can be true: Your statement, and there should be consequences for bad decisions. Consequences and social pressures have a function- they lead people to better behaviors. Would you raise a child indifferently under the banner of forgiveness? Would that prepare them for the world? I don't think so, I don't think you think so. What's interesting is, how you see the problem and how you pursue being the best person you can.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

The police and criminal system is not designed for transformative justice

So, disclaimer again: I'm not a fan of the state, I don't think we need to look to violence first for solutions to social problems.

I also recognize that at the hypothetical funeral I stated above, there are no winners, only losers. How do you propose we mitigate in that scenario? I'm very much unsympathetic to the arguments for incarceration based on revenge (getting justice for a grieving family) or punishment (a reaction to breaking the law), and while the arguments made around prevention (the threat of punishment prevents the next tragedy) seem a little better, it also seems a bit like "playing God" to me. But in reality, one was robbed of their life while the other goes on living.

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

I will continue to seek a different path so that the wife is not further endangered and also that the policyholder and the husband accept responsibility and change their reckless behavior.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something- it seems unrealistic for you to take the life stories of these people into account. You are a stranger to these people, you don't really know them all that well. I for one wouldn't dare to make the claim that I could intervene in someone else's life for their better. I don't want the responsibility that comes with that, precisely because it could lead to a funeral.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by OlgaAK

My main concern is for the wife. She was not driving and doesn't even have a phone of her own. I want to make sure that she gets some level of support quickly before anything happens regarding her husband (the driver). I don't have much sympathy for him, but I don't think that he will be able to do anything of use to anyone if he is in jail. Out of jail, he can at least answer my texts about the name of the policyholder. I worry a lot about the wife. She did nothing wrong, but now she is losing her home and her husband may go to jail regardless of what I do because of all the other people involved. I place most of the responsibility for this on the policyholder, as she knowingly loaned a vehicle to someone who cannot legally drive it. She also seems to be taking advantage of vulnerable people, and that's really disgusting to me.

Regarding insurance, yes, I have collision coverage, but I'm still hesitant that Allstate will actually cover my skoolie once their appraiser comes and sees the color. The agent said that he's not aware of anyone with a skoolie having filed a claim and that I will be the "guinea pig." I don't like being the Guinea pig when the tow alone is $800.

I wouldn't listen to the sob stories. That's pretty standard for those kinds of lowlifes.
They sense your empathy and are exploiting it.