Do I Need a Commercial Driver's License (CDL)?

[GWRider]

Originally Posted by Twigg

My point isn't that states can't add extra requirements, but they can't add the requirement for a CDL where the CDL Regs don't call for one.

That is why so many states added "Non-Commercial" Classes.

Does not appear Kansas got the memo either. They require a CDL as well if over 26K.

[CaptSquid]

Ah, but do they require one for an RV?

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by GWRider

Does not appear Kansas got the memo either. They require a CDL as well if over 26K.

Snippets from various websites:

Kansas: CDL (Class B) required for single vehicle over 26,000 lb; CDL (Class A) required for multiple vehicles with combined weight over 26,000 lb

Kansas (Commercial Driver’s License, Class A needed for over 26K)

_–------------------

Interesting bit that I came across. It is not Kansas specific but illustrates how things can vary by state:

"From trailers, campers and fifth-wheels, to motor homes and boats, people are spending their weekends on the road to the lake, rodeos, races, the river, and other recreational venues and activities. In our world of “bigger is better,” recreational vehicles are no exception. With a manufacturer’s weight rating (“GVWR” or “GCWR”) over 26,000 pounds and often towing a unit with a GVWR over 10,000 pounds, these vehicles can be as large as some commercial trucks.

Both state and federal law sets forth requirements for drivers of certain types and sizes of vehicles. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration sets minimum standards for motor vehicles used in commerce. However, states are not precluded from establishing their own laws relating to vehicle safety, which are often more specific than their federal counterpart. Oklahoma has taken an approach very similar to federal regulations, adopting the same weight ratings system to differentiate between classes of vehicles. Generally, if federal guidelines require a driver to posses a CDL, Oklahoma law does as well."

[almabes]

So, I went and renewed my license and discussed operating a bus with them. Since there might be some ambiguity as to whether the bus we're getting is classified an RV, or as a Class 7 school bus with minimal seating and air brakes, I opted to apply for a Class F (Non commercial Class B) Permit for now. I had to take a 20 question knowledge test that was based on the CDL driver's manual available on their website. In 3 months or 3000 miles I can take the practical test and get a full Class F.

This should keep there from being any misunderstanding or a ticket for potentially operating out of class.

[Gr8house]

Some of what I'm reading states that if th GVWR is over 26000 and/or seat for more than 15 people u need a CDL. The bus I'm looking at is 30000 ad still has the seats in it. Any advice?

[almabes]

My suggestion would be to go for the non commercial Class B in your state (Class F in Georgia). There will be no ambiguity that you are properly licensed to operate the vehicle then.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Technically, yes, if seats still installed, GVWR >26000, CDL Class B with P (possibly S if a DOT officer wants to be hard-nosed) endorsements is required, especially if said bus has air brakes. This is only when unconverted, however, titled as RV / MOTORHOME are exempt. But most states will not retitle as such until inspected and satisifed it can no longer be used as a bus. Some officers are understanding once it is explained, but the risk really isn't worth it and these things can be dangerous, even deadly with a commerciallly inexperienced driver behind the wheel.

I have a CDL, as do some others here. I may be willing to help with transport (for reasonable compensation after expenses), as I am still qualified. I do not have P endorsement, but having a CDL makes it a lot less of a problem if stopped en route to where it will be converted. I would also be willing to provide at least a crash course.

Getting a proper license is always a good idea, and I recommend taking a course or at least gaining the knowledge, but it carries a few caveats:

Routine physical and paperwork filing with DMV.
Stricter BAC limits and harsher penalties for traffic violations.

[john61ct]

Use VT reg, takes a month though.

Then legally an RV, exempt from CDL

so ling as never used for **any** commercial purpose, private recreation only

[rossvtaylor]

I know this is an older thread, but I just found it when searching for reading options for a new forum member. I may have been guilty of spreading the "misinformation" about the requirement for a CDL if operating a bus that's not registered as a motorhome (MH) or recreational vehicle (RV). But that's because, in Arizona where I live and hold a CDL, it is required to hold a CDL to operate any vehicle with a GVW over 26,001 pounds or which is designed to carry 16 or more persons. Arizona law makes no distinction between commercial or private use of that vehicle...it only designates the license types required based on the vehicle itself. Since we own buses with GVWs over 35,000 pounds and I drive them home from purchases, with the seats still in them, I keep my CDL current.

Here's the relevant Arizona guideline, from the CDL manual:



True, once they're registered as an RV or MH then the CDL requirement no longer applies. That was a Federal concession made to the RV industry, after lobbying efforts...thanks RVers!!

I admit that I've referred to my ability to legally operate a bus with air brakes as an "air brake endorsement" and I need to change how I refer to that. It's not an endorsement, like the P (passenger), it's the lack of a restriction. So, in Arizona, if you have a CDL but don't pass the air brake test then you will get a restriction noted on your license...that restricts the driver from operating a vehicle with air brakes. Again, this does not apply to RV or MH titled vehicles (including buses, once converted and re-titled).

Here's the Arizona law wording:

(L) - No Air brake equipped CMV: If an applicant does not take or fails the air brake component of the knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the State must indicate on the CLP or CDL, if issued, that the person is restricted from operating a CMV equipped with any type of air brakes.

I had assumed that states would have similar laws...silly me! For example, Arizona has no "class B for private use" license, which I've seen others mention in their states. So...I'm always learning and will amend my future comments to make it clear that our laws may not reflect those in other states.

[Sehnsucht]

I think what confuses people is that commercial license standards are established by the federal government but the testing and licensing is performed by each state. It's not really that your state has different CDL requirements or restrictions than others but just that they may use slightly different verbiage to define the classes of commercial license. Nevertheless, each state issued CDL conforms to a uniform class which has endorsements and restrictions.

[ATravelingMan32]

Twigg, Thanks so much for posting this! Stupid question time (please feel free to laugh). We are looking to get a bus but are wondering if a CDL is required for the test drive (because of the weight of the bus). Here in NE there are weight requirements that highlight the need for a CDL.

Have you heard of any issues doing a Skoolie conversion in the State of Nebraska where a strange interpretation of the rules make things problematic?

I think that we should be fine without a CDL but are coming to seek the wisdom of the experienced ones!

Thanks for your time and we hope you are all being safe out there on the road!

[rossvtaylor]

Hi ATravelingMan32 - It looks like Nebraska law is the same as that in Arizona, with which I'm very familiar. Take a look at my post, above, and the NE law: https://dmv.nebraska.gov/cdl/cdl

Essentially, yes...a CDL is required...and without any strange interpretation. But, will you get stopped and/or cited for not having one? Almost never. Do almost all bus purchasers drive their bus home without legal issue? Yes. Will the dealer or seller require you to have a CDL to either test drive or drive off their lot after purchase? Sometimes. Should you read the CDL manual and become familiar with bus and air brake operation, even if you don't get a CDL? Absolutely!

Have fun and good luck with your purchase!

[ATravelingMan32]

Rossvtaylor, thanks for your response! There is more to the journey! I called the DMV here in Omaha and asked them for the skinny about all this. Here is their response (paraphrased), "You shouldn't need one because the purpose the bus is not commercial business and IF it weighs less than 26,001K. Call the DOT or the State Police and ask them since they would be the ones to ticket you out on the road."

Even the State can't seem to look at this and provide any direction. There is the letter of the requirement, then there is the logic of enforcing it.

Our train of thought is to get the bus, drive it home, gut it, build it, maybe register it in VT, and get on the road. What is good to understand is that regardless of the vehicle, if/when it busts the weight limit a CDL is required.

We are going to do some more research on this and post it on this thread.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by ATravelingMan32

"You shouldn't need one because the purpose the bus is not commercial business and IF it weighs less than 26,001K. Call the DOT or the State Police and ask them since they would be the ones to ticket you out on the road."

Even the State can't seem to look at this and provide any direction. There is the letter of the requirement, then there is the logic of enforcing it.

You got lucky - you got through to a live person and they gave you accurate info! If the vehicle weighs less than 26,000 pounds or less and isn't being used for commercial purposes and is designed to carry fewer than 16 people...then, if all of those apply, you don't need a CDL. But if your bus has a GVW of 26,001 pounds or more, or if it has seats for 16 people or more (including the driver...so the driver, plus 15 other butt spaces), then you need a CDL to be legal.

Now...although I've written this before, I want to clarify my position again. I do not suggest that every skoolie owner ought to get a CDL to pick up their bus or drive it pre-motorhome-title-change. I just want people to go into that trip with open eyes and full knowledge so there are no surprises.

If you get stopped for some traffic violation or an equipment violation, are you going to get cited for not having a proper license when you're just trying to get your cool new bus home? I'm guessing that 9 out of 10 officers will want to learn about skoolie life and ask about your new bus (planning their own retirement!) and will send you on your way. But. And here's the big but. If you get in a wreck, the officer will have no discretion in the matter and you will get cited for driving without a license. And when your insurance company sees that, they may not cover you. And when the other driver and their insurance company sees that they'll sue. And when the judge/jury see that, you'll most likely lose. Is that fair, when you don't need the CDL to drive the same exact vehicle when the title says MH or RV? Nope...it's not...but it is what the law says and there are times when officers have no discretion.

I know I'm sounding negative here, and that's not my intent. Just know what you're doing, understand the risks, and make sure you learn as much about safely driving that big new bus as you can.

[john61ct]

Not that it is relevant from a practical POV

but DOT is Federal

and **only** has jurisdiction on the highways over interstate **commerce**

If there is no commercial activity involved in theory you can tell them to go jump.

However each of the States is free to set whatever arbitrary and illogical hoops for you to jump through.

And if your DL is legal for your same-state registered rig there

then by convention / courtesy the other 49 usually will render the courtesy of not over-riding.

Except for obvious safety issues of course.

However, lawyers are expensive, so if the LEO on the scene or even the regs/laws she's enforcing are "wrong", behooves us all to "go along to get along" best we can.

But the principle of "this instance involves no commercial activity" really is (should be) a critical deciding factor for many of these issues.