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Old 10-06-2016, 02:17 PM   #101
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,084
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I finally got around to giving the new guy a good look over... everyrthing looks as good as what I thought..

as typical a couple little oil seeps here and there on the engine.. but nothing huge.. its sat a week after being driven 1100 miles and there were a few drops of oil on the pavement but my oil level was still on F where i started out...

coolant level was still between max and add like it was.. and trans is full and red..

I connexted it up to the laptop ands found there were no DTC's set in the whole trip.. and no permanent codes..(permanent codes are codes that surivive resets, scan tool, clears, and the like... they are often errors such as over-temp, over-rev, low oil PSI, etc.. meant to let a shop know of possible user error) I then verified that the serial number of the ECM, the datestanp and the VIN all matched.. which means the computers are original and the 143k listed ion the dash is 99% likely real mileage.

the ICP, IPR, and HPOP all were running well within their normals..

I realize people may talk about a T-444E / 7.3 as being a "150,000 mile engine" and im at 143k.. but this one really seems to be in fantastic shape.. it runs good, sounds good, and the electronics seem to be working great.. a new fan clutch and it will be ready for hot weather more even..

I lifted the road speed governor off of it and enabled the cruise control functionality .. the RPM governor is of course still in place at 2700 RPM.

the compouter tells me irt has 3.56 gears in it.. with the little wheels that doesnt surprise me.. even so its a decent highway bus.. itll go 70 if i want it to. I breifly ran it up to that speed but didnt stay there long.. its a little breezy in florida and I know irt would warm up if I ran it there long, till i get the new fan clutch on.

the chassis needs a lube.. the zirks look a little dry, and even though the oil looks good, it'll get an oil change before it gets driven to ohio..

the school wasnt using the service tracking abilities of the ECM.. though it has them so you can enable service intervals that will light up on the dash.

all in all I think i got a great little bus..
-Christopher
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Old 10-06-2016, 02:54 PM   #102
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Location: Eustis FLORIDA
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Year: 1992
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You gotta post some pics!
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:14 PM   #103
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Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
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Year: 1997
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Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Did you buy ServiceMaxx, or is there other software to use with the Navistar/International engines? My cruise is locked out, too.
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:43 PM   #104
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Servicemaxx for J1708 engines is free... that covers the DT-466E, T-444E, VT-365..

basically any 'E' engine that is Pre Maxxforce designation..

you need an interface.. i used the NEXIQ USB-Link 2
-Christopher
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:44 PM   #105
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Wow cool!! Last time I checked I swear it was a couple hundred dollars! That was a few years ago, mind you... Gonna download it right now!
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:25 PM   #106
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,084
Year: 1991
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
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it used to be.. . make sure you download the J1708 version... that is the free one... when IHC 'legacied' those engines they gave the software away..

I ran the computer on ione just to get smoe good baseline readings.. and also to compare the computer readings with my dash gauges.. i still have yet to verify computer readings with true readings.. however I do know my dash temperature gauge reads warmer than the CTS... the CTS matches my temperature gun at the T-stat housing..

the oil P is my only concern.. however its not out of spec per the Service book.. just out of spec per my brain... LOL..

after im warmed up and hot my oil P drops to about 18 at low idle.. and goes up to about 42 at cruise - 2100 RPM.. and hints between 37-42.. per spec they claim thats Ok .. just seems low for a diesel... my DT-360 runs 50-52 highway and idles at 23 or so hot..

my ICP and all the injectors are running right perfect.. the idle is nice n smooth..

little injector cackle on the #8 .. theres a TSB on that if I really wanted to get rid of the 'tap-tap' sound at Hot slow idle..

I did enable the engine protection system.. it was turned off.. as i understand alot of them are.. it was an optional feature.. im guessing with a bus transporting students they would rather nuke an engine than they would have a partial or full shutdown because of high engine / oil temp or low oil P..

if you have a 6.0 you esp want that turned on.. im assuming the VT-365 has the same issue as the ford 6.0 which if you severely over-heat it.. your oil filter housing and internals literally MELT.. they are plastic.... and go through the engine and congeal... the oil doesnt break the plastic down.. its just melts it.. and if it gets through the screen into the HPOP bye bye injectors.. that happens at oil temperature 270... if all of the colers are working and there isnt too much blow-by the oil T and the coolant T should be pretty close..

a forum member ive been talking with I believe melted his VT-365 oil filter down last night.. that bus is likely ruined.. hasd the EPS been enabled it very well may have saved it..

im not new to electronic engines... i did a ton of GM ECM / BCM hacking in the late 80s / 90s.. biut im Very new to Electronic Diesels...

-Christopher
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Old 10-12-2016, 03:27 PM   #107
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Put a new Borg-Warner Viscous Fan clutch on the bus yesterday.. Warm Engine issue SOLVED..

just like the DEV it's fan never went above minimum speed. its 86 in florida today and runs with temperature never hitting 200 on the dash.. 194 on the ECM..(maybe the dash gauge is wrong?).. fan kicks in and out as it shoiuld now..

the LPOP runs a bit higher too now that the oil cooler can do its job..

its in getting A Once over at an Indie diesel shop... new oil, trans fluid, filters, coolant, and a good ole Lube down..

I was able to change the fan clutch without a front end Tear down... the trick is dont attempt to take the fan blade out of the truck...

pop the SERP belt off to give yourself some room, Use a spanner wrench and Bust the Big nut Loose, then separate the fan from the clutch.. set the blade against the water pump.. unscrew the clutch and carefully slide it between the blades and out...

I had thought about a Horton upgrade since this bus could support it with the PCM.. however when i saw the price of the update kit, i opted for the viscous replacement.. the viscous clutch works fantastic on DEV so I figure it will do fine on this bus too..

I finally got around to putting a gauge on the A/C.. (thanks to a friend who loaned me a set of gauges.. as mine are in ohio).. the unit still cooled fine but the pressures were a bit low for the heat load.. so I found it was about 2 pounds (out of 7.5) low on Freon... it has dye in it but no visible leaks.. i thought it was cold before.. now its bone chilling air out of the vents... I'll run a sniffer and a UV on it in Ohio..

Next is to drive it to Ohio to get it registered
thus far it seems like my first Auction purchase is a success..

yeah yeah I still gotta post the pics..

-Christopher
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Old 10-12-2016, 03:31 PM   #108
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Year: 1997
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Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Put a new Borg-Warner Viscous Fan clutch on the bus yesterday.. Warm Engine issue SOLVED..
Fantastic! Do you have the fan clutch model # available? I'm curious about which one you went with. I need to do the same to my T444e.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
yeah yeah I still gotta post the pics.
Yes please!
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:01 PM   #109
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,084
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the clutch is a kit-masters part number 010020791
kit-masters makes replacement fan clutches for about everything..
to make sure that will fit yours you can call an IHC dealer with your VIN number and tell them you need a fan clutch.. ask them for the price and part number...

the part number they give you will be the OEM part. I then googled that OEM number and it came up on kit-masters site.. or you cam call them.. they are great to work with.. your SIG says the bus is a 97.. 97 was a transition year for the T-444E so the part may be different than mine..

when I got it I adjusted its temperature down 1 and a half notches..

when you buy a fan clutch it will look like the PIC below.. that is the temperature setting..




note these clutches operate on the AIR TEMP from the radiator not the coolant temp.. the "wonderful" IHC design of half radiator half turbo cooler presents a unique issue in that the air temperature gets tempered by the turbo cooler when its not pulling hard.. so you can have a coolant temp run-up where the fan doesnt always turn on..

if you loosen the 2 torx bolts you can gently slide the adjuster to the LEFT.. each notch is about 10 degrees F ... I asked kit-masters what my new one was set at.. they said 165.. setting it to 150 may sound Low, hoewever with the mixed air it works out perfectly... you can run it stock if you like.. the fan will kick on a little later... im sure i run my bus against its T-stat which is still warm enough to keep the engine from being too cold.. my ECT sensor stays between 185 and 194 all the time now..

I run the DEV a little cooler.. it has a 175 thermostat in it and its fan is set up to keep the engine about 180-190

-Christopher
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:08 PM   #110
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,084
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I should mention the fan clutch wont fix a cooling system coolant flow... I measured the AIR temp coming from the radiator / turbo cooler and found I was getting 180-190 degree air at idle or when i revved the engine and my fan never sped up much so I knew i had a fan engagement issue.
-Christopher
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