got a bus in TX how do I drive it away?

[cadillackid]

I finally got around to giving the new guy a good look over... everyrthing looks as good as what I thought..

as typical a couple little oil seeps here and there on the engine.. but nothing huge.. its sat a week after being driven 1100 miles and there were a few drops of oil on the pavement but my oil level was still on F where i started out...

coolant level was still between max and add like it was.. and trans is full and red..

I connexted it up to the laptop ands found there were no DTC's set in the whole trip.. and no permanent codes..(permanent codes are codes that surivive resets, scan tool, clears, and the like... they are often errors such as over-temp, over-rev, low oil PSI, etc.. meant to let a shop know of possible user error) I then verified that the serial number of the ECM, the datestanp and the VIN all matched.. which means the computers are original and the 143k listed ion the dash is 99% likely real mileage.

the ICP, IPR, and HPOP all were running well within their normals..

I realize people may talk about a T-444E / 7.3 as being a "150,000 mile engine" and im at 143k.. but this one really seems to be in fantastic shape.. it runs good, sounds good, and the electronics seem to be working great.. a new fan clutch and it will be ready for hot weather more even..

I lifted the road speed governor off of it and enabled the cruise control functionality .. the RPM governor is of course still in place at 2700 RPM.

the compouter tells me irt has 3.56 gears in it.. with the little wheels that doesnt surprise me.. even so its a decent highway bus.. itll go 70 if i want it to. I breifly ran it up to that speed but didnt stay there long.. its a little breezy in florida and I know irt would warm up if I ran it there long, till i get the new fan clutch on.

the chassis needs a lube.. the zirks look a little dry, and even though the oil looks good, it'll get an oil change before it gets driven to ohio..

the school wasnt using the service tracking abilities of the ECM.. though it has them so you can enable service intervals that will light up on the dash.

all in all I think i got a great little bus..
-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

You gotta post some pics!

[jazty]

Did you buy ServiceMaxx, or is there other software to use with the Navistar/International engines? My cruise is locked out, too.

[cadillackid]

Servicemaxx for J1708 engines is free... that covers the DT-466E, T-444E, VT-365..

basically any 'E' engine that is Pre Maxxforce designation..

you need an interface.. i used the NEXIQ USB-Link 2
-Christopher

[jazty]

Wow cool!! Last time I checked I swear it was a couple hundred dollars! That was a few years ago, mind you... Gonna download it right now!

[cadillackid]

it used to be.. . make sure you download the J1708 version... that is the free one... when IHC 'legacied' those engines they gave the software away..

I ran the computer on ione just to get smoe good baseline readings.. and also to compare the computer readings with my dash gauges.. i still have yet to verify computer readings with true readings.. however I do know my dash temperature gauge reads warmer than the CTS... the CTS matches my temperature gun at the T-stat housing..

the oil P is my only concern.. however its not out of spec per the Service book.. just out of spec per my brain... LOL..

after im warmed up and hot my oil P drops to about 18 at low idle.. and goes up to about 42 at cruise - 2100 RPM.. and hints between 37-42.. per spec they claim thats Ok .. just seems low for a diesel... my DT-360 runs 50-52 highway and idles at 23 or so hot..

my ICP and all the injectors are running right perfect.. the idle is nice n smooth..

little injector cackle on the #8 .. theres a TSB on that if I really wanted to get rid of the 'tap-tap' sound at Hot slow idle..

I did enable the engine protection system.. it was turned off.. as i understand alot of them are.. it was an optional feature.. im guessing with a bus transporting students they would rather nuke an engine than they would have a partial or full shutdown because of high engine / oil temp or low oil P..

if you have a 6.0 you esp want that turned on.. im assuming the VT-365 has the same issue as the ford 6.0 which if you severely over-heat it.. your oil filter housing and internals literally MELT.. they are plastic.... and go through the engine and congeal... the oil doesnt break the plastic down.. its just melts it.. and if it gets through the screen into the HPOP bye bye injectors.. that happens at oil temperature 270... if all of the colers are working and there isnt too much blow-by the oil T and the coolant T should be pretty close..

a forum member ive been talking with I believe melted his VT-365 oil filter down last night.. that bus is likely ruined.. hasd the EPS been enabled it very well may have saved it..

im not new to electronic engines... i did a ton of GM ECM / BCM hacking in the late 80s / 90s.. biut im Very new to Electronic Diesels...

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Put a new Borg-Warner Viscous Fan clutch on the bus yesterday.. Warm Engine issue SOLVED..

just like the DEV it's fan never went above minimum speed. its 86 in florida today and runs with temperature never hitting 200 on the dash.. 194 on the ECM..(maybe the dash gauge is wrong?).. fan kicks in and out as it shoiuld now..

the LPOP runs a bit higher too now that the oil cooler can do its job..

its in getting A Once over at an Indie diesel shop... new oil, trans fluid, filters, coolant, and a good ole Lube down..

I was able to change the fan clutch without a front end Tear down... the trick is dont attempt to take the fan blade out of the truck...

pop the SERP belt off to give yourself some room, Use a spanner wrench and Bust the Big nut Loose, then separate the fan from the clutch.. set the blade against the water pump.. unscrew the clutch and carefully slide it between the blades and out...

I had thought about a Horton upgrade since this bus could support it with the PCM.. however when i saw the price of the update kit, i opted for the viscous replacement.. the viscous clutch works fantastic on DEV so I figure it will do fine on this bus too..

I finally got around to putting a gauge on the A/C.. (thanks to a friend who loaned me a set of gauges.. as mine are in ohio).. the unit still cooled fine but the pressures were a bit low for the heat load.. so I found it was about 2 pounds (out of 7.5) low on Freon... it has dye in it but no visible leaks.. i thought it was cold before.. now its bone chilling air out of the vents... I'll run a sniffer and a UV on it in Ohio..

Next is to drive it to Ohio to get it registered
thus far it seems like my first Auction purchase is a success..

yeah yeah I still gotta post the pics..

-Christopher

[jazty]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Put a new Borg-Warner Viscous Fan clutch on the bus yesterday.. Warm Engine issue SOLVED..

Fantastic! Do you have the fan clutch model # available? I'm curious about which one you went with. I need to do the same to my T444e.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

yeah yeah I still gotta post the pics.

Yes please!

[cadillackid]

the clutch is a kit-masters part number 010020791
kit-masters makes replacement fan clutches for about everything..
to make sure that will fit yours you can call an IHC dealer with your VIN number and tell them you need a fan clutch.. ask them for the price and part number...

the part number they give you will be the OEM part. I then googled that OEM number and it came up on kit-masters site.. or you cam call them.. they are great to work with.. your SIG says the bus is a 97.. 97 was a transition year for the T-444E so the part may be different than mine..

when I got it I adjusted its temperature down 1 and a half notches..

when you buy a fan clutch it will look like the PIC below.. that is the temperature setting..




note these clutches operate on the AIR TEMP from the radiator not the coolant temp.. the "wonderful" IHC design of half radiator half turbo cooler presents a unique issue in that the air temperature gets tempered by the turbo cooler when its not pulling hard.. so you can have a coolant temp run-up where the fan doesnt always turn on..

if you loosen the 2 torx bolts you can gently slide the adjuster to the LEFT.. each notch is about 10 degrees F ... I asked kit-masters what my new one was set at.. they said 165.. setting it to 150 may sound Low, hoewever with the mixed air it works out perfectly... you can run it stock if you like.. the fan will kick on a little later... im sure i run my bus against its T-stat which is still warm enough to keep the engine from being too cold.. my ECT sensor stays between 185 and 194 all the time now..

I run the DEV a little cooler.. it has a 175 thermostat in it and its fan is set up to keep the engine about 180-190

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

I should mention the fan clutch wont fix a cooling system coolant flow... I measured the AIR temp coming from the radiator / turbo cooler and found I was getting 180-190 degree air at idle or when i revved the engine and my fan never sped up much so I knew i had a fan engagement issue.
-Christopher

[FlyboyHPD]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Servicemaxx for J1708 engines is free... that covers the DT-466E, T-444E, VT-365..

basically any 'E' engine that is Pre Maxxforce designation..

you need an interface.. i used the NEXIQ USB-Link 2
-Christopher

Hi Christopher,

Where do I purchase the NEXIQ USB-link 2 ?

Also, will the SW run on Win7 or Win10 ?

Thanks,
Eric

[cadillackid]

I got mine on amazon. its not Cheap!

https://www.amazon.com/NEXIQ-Technol...xiq+usb+link+2

I run the servicemaxx in a VM of windows 7 ultimate on my macbook pro and it works perfect.. when I ran it on my windows 10 laptop it ran perfect however the Fonts rendered so small they were nearly unreadable... that laptop does have a 4K display so maybe that was part of it.. you may have better win10 luck...

if its something where yopu dont need it right away, you can borrow my NEXIQ. im going to be driving the new bus from FL to OH in the next couple days so I want to take it with me in case i run into an issue.
-Christopher

[FlyboyHPD]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I got mine on amazon. its not Cheap!

https://www.amazon.com/NEXIQ-Technol...xiq+usb+link+2

I run the servicemaxx in a VM of windows 7 ultimate on my macbook pro and it works perfect.. when I ran it on my windows 10 laptop it ran perfect however the Fonts rendered so small they were nearly unreadable... that laptop does have a 4K display so maybe that was part of it.. you may have better win10 luck...

if its something where yopu dont need it right away, you can borrow my NEXIQ. im going to be driving the new bus from FL to OH in the next couple days so I want to take it with me in case i run into an issue.
-Christopher

Ouch, that is pricey, but well worth it for troubleshooting. So am I correct in assuming that the Servicemaxx SW is not something that you keep open on your laptop while driving, but used more for when you want to diagnose a possible problem?

Have you ever seen this SW before: VMSpc | SilverLeaf Electronics, Inc.

Apparently it has customizeable displays to show you a vast array of different outputs and this is made for keeping open while you drive. Not a bad price either.

[cadillackid]

badass! that software looks exactly what I need!!.. I was wanting to find a program I could run on my surface pro while driving down the road as opposed to just diagnostics like servcemaxx is...

wonder if it will work with my Nexiq? im gonna play with it for sure..

-Christopher

[FlyboyHPD]

Awesome, glad I could turn you onto it. I'm definitely going to get it. If it works with the Nexiq that would be great but I'm thinking you may have to buy their interface. Send'em and email and ask.

Check out their VMSpc gallery to see all the different screen layouts their customers have come up with. It's really cool.

[Carytowncat]

My first Bus was a 98 Thomas Prison gransport bus with the t444 motor. Pretty neato. If i had some diagnostics i may have been able to get it running right, but during that time i did learn a lot about that motor and the three main things that go wrong: ipr, cps,... anx something else. lol

But yeah Christopher i can only imagine that since you enjoy computers that motor will be a real treat with a Torque pro type program because there is a lot of jeat stuff happening. The guy i bought it from likes those motors so much he actually bought it back from me

and still excited to see pictures....

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by FlyboyHPD

Awesome, glad I could turn you onto it. I'm definitely going to get it. If it works with the Nexiq that would be great but I'm thinking you may have to buy their interface. Send'em and email and ask.

Check out their VMSpc gallery to see all the different screen layouts their customers have come up with. It's really cool.

im going up to the bus today I'll try their software with the NEXIQ and see if it picks it up..

if I can get my Surface pro to not run too hot it could be a nice addition to the dash..

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Carytowncat

My first Bus was a 98 Thomas Prison gransport bus with the t444 motor. Pretty neato. If i had some diagnostics i may have been able to get it running right, but during that time i did learn a lot about that motor and the three main things that go wrong: ipr, cps,... anx something else. lol

But yeah Christopher i can only imagine that since you enjoy computers that motor will be a real treat with a Torque pro type program because there is a lot of jeat stuff happening. The guy i bought it from likes those motors so much he actually bought it back from me

and still excited to see pictures....

the ICP, IPR, and CPS are the 3 main failures... the other issues are the IDM's which are the power supplies that drive the injectors themselves...

if the fuel lift pump goes bad then you can suck air in the injectors and it will act strange...

I took a bunch of readings on mine and videos of the screens since it runs good now.. some references to use in case i have issues.. it does seem to circulate coolant through the radiator rather soon after starting.. so my thermostat may be sticking open.. or there may just be a large bleed on that engine.. I'll know more once I get it to ohio since its been in the upper 30s at night.. it will be a good test of my glow plugs to.. right now in florida i can just hop in and start it without waiting for the "start wait" light to go out because its warm... doesnt even smoke when I do that.. shows I have decent compression still..

but upper 30s while not cold should still require the glow plugs... or at least if i glow it and it starts hard I'll know theres an issue.

if i have to replce any glow plugs I'll tank that dog-gone #8 injector and replace it with an AE.. engine "knocks" bother me even when i know they are completely harmless..

if your T-444E makes the sound... a ford TSB covers what is wrong... international had a bulletin on it to somewhere.. but ive already had one person at a gas station say "dude sounds like you got a rod going...".. my response was to jump in and run the engine up to 2700 RPM where it sounded like a perfectly normal diesel...

and the dude was like "oh my god my friends pickup sounded like that so he parked it and started buying parts to rebuid the engine.. you mean its not broke down??"...

I dont know about his pickup but i dont believe my bus is gona blow a rod..

anyway if you get a knocking sound at HOT low idle its likely this..

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...knock-ford.pdf

im sure most reading this thread know that the ford 7.3 Powerstroke was an engine built by International for ford.. and on the busses it is the T-444E. there are differences however much of it is the same..

if you Hack your PCM you can make the T-444E a powerhouse if you so choose..
with PCM hacking and bolt ons these can be 300-400 HP engines easily... ive got no interest in that as it moves my little short bus pretty decently.. before I hack the PCM id install an upgraded tranny... but I'll probably just leave it alone..

if i feel the need to go fast I'll go get a Hell-Cat or a ZL1 lol...

I often wonder how flyboy can adjust to a school bus after flying choppers and Jets and real monster machines!..


-Christopher

[cadillackid]

another great Bus ride in this bus in the books!! just ran it from st pete to Columbus ohio... .. i ran the bus a bit hard knosing it was just serviced and given a good bill of health... drove it wit hthe cruise control on 65.. it held its own on all the hills and all..

at one point I did see my temperature go to 212 but the fan kicked in and roared it back to 200 or so... it was running up a hill on an 85 degree day at full throttle.. a couple mile hill.. from what im reading 212 isnt crazy hot for one of these T-444E's.

oil and coolant levels checked in as where it was when I left 1100 miles ago... (yes I move the bus off the slanted driveway before i checked the fluids).. couple little drops on the ground after it sat over-night..

this one even fits in the driveway at the house..



now its where i have tools and what not to take that darned dashboard apart and make it so its not flaky...

-Christopher

[johnbloem1974]

Good lookin' shorty! That was the one you got from the CFISD, right? I went to their schools (elementary and junior high) as a kid(back in the '80's). What size are those tires? they look small on that bus... Glad to hear you had a successful uneventful trip home!

John