got a bus in TX how do I drive it away?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Tango

...personally...I HATE cold weather. Forget the bus issues, it makes my old bones ache!

I'll take palm trees and 100 degrees any day.

Amen to that, Tango!

Quite happy in the tropics.

[Tango]

The biggest issue here in Houston is that we have to keep switching from heat to a/c...heat to a/c. Tomorrow is looking like a record high (in the 80's)...but that will be immediately followed by a couple of days of freezing weather.

Ah well, at least we don't get anywhere near sub-zero and do get regular relief from the minor chill.

And just for the record...palm trees look great with a few strings of Christmas lights.

Happy Holidays all...no matter what the weather!

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by Tango

And just for the record...palm trees look great with a few strings of Christmas lights.

Happy Holidays all...no matter what the weather!

[cadillackid]

I love that pic!!have seen it floating around for years..

decorating my balcony in florida was OK.. but a few years ago I did these at my house..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om_pfJFJIDw&t=186s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5G-xrmOqk

-Christopher

[Kubla]

if you are going to do the 80's GMC, you need a brigadier with a 6-71 detriot in it

[cadillackid]

Not that my 444 is quiet but I'm not sure I could even hear myself think with a 6-71 up front. Do love the sound in an RE bus.. I think that was what in all the old fishbowl city busses I used to ride as a kid. Screaming demon ?
Christopher

[cadillackid]

What can I add to my Bus to keep my Air from freezing? we just went through a wicked cold snap with 2 nights of 0 degrees f and lots of wind.. the Bus started right up each day woth only one glowplug cycle and ran Great.. However the air system completely froze..

at one point I saw my air pressure guage on 145 PSI.. yet My air ride was FLAT and I had Zero air at my air seat...

the air ride finally pumped up after about 15 minutes of driving.. talk about a log-wagon ride for those first minutes.. it took over an hour before I finally got air bacl at my seat again.

it has no air dryer and no air heater.. it has an auto drain valve on the tank which had icicles on it..

the air on that bus is non essential.. it doesnt do anything for the brakes.. just the air seat and air ride suspension..

is there anything I can install to help this?

and of course it brings up concern for my other bus if i drive it to ohio in bitter cold.. it does have air brakes, and an air dryer with a heater..

so in general what do you do or instal on air systems so that things work right?

-Christopher

[WanderWoman]

Those are pretty awesome!
Sandi

[Kubla]

Hopefully the bus with air brakes has a proper air dryer, one could be installed on this bus

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Kubla

Hopefully the bus with air brakes has a proper air dryer, one could be installed on this bus

the DEV bus has a new AD-4 with heater installed on it..

im thinking maybe I should put one on this one..

well actually the AD-4 has been replaced by bendix with the AD-9 (an upgrade).. so id probably move tge AD-4 from DEV to this bus and the AD-9 on DEV since it has mission critical air components..

im amazed even with auto-drain tanks hiw much moisture was in the air lines.. then again it was snowing out so the air was moisture-laden going into the compressor..

are freezing air systems normal? I see SEMI's driving in 20 below weather so somehow their air doesnt freeze. . does the Air dryer handle mositure much better than auto drain valves?

-Christopher

[Kubla]

The air dryer has a desiccant in it that all the air goes through, it purges it with those air releases you hear so moisture never really makes it to the "dry" tanks, there is a tank ahead of the air dryer that is called the wet tank which the compressor dumps into that usually will not freeze because the just compressed air is hot

[EastCoastCB]

Chris- are you draining the tanks after use?
I think you're supposed to.

[cadillackid]

Interesting on the wet tank as the dev doesn't have one.. maybe it's supposed to.. it has the main line from the compressor going into the dryer then out to a 3 partition tank.. there's another large tank which had nothing but the stop sign hooked to it.. maybe that should be ahead of the dryer? It was after the dryer and T into the output of the dryer . Right now it's orphaned .

In the redbyrd ( one with no dryer) there's only 1 tank since it doesn't have air brakes. ) the only drain valve on it is the auto drain valve that appears to drain when the governor kicks the compressor back in at 90 psi . That valve is connected to one of the ports on the governor. So I can't really manually drain the tank. Since there's not much air usage I'm guessing there's not much heat buildup from compression.

On the dev I drain my tanks when I park it for more than just a few hours.. but when I know I'm not gonna use it for awhile I drain the tanks and then close the drains. This causes the air suspension to go flat but doesn't seem to hurt it.

Christopher

[cadillackid]

Ahh so rather than seemingly post what I do with my buse on other threads.. figured id come back to this old one..

so yesterday was the first pretty Hot trip i took in the bus since i replaced its fan clutch in late october...

I drove it from st pete to Orlando and back for work.. It was full sun, and in florida the late march sun angle is pretty strong.. the outside temp reached about 87 at the airport, and my sensor on the front of the bus on the freeways was pushing over 90 at times..

I drove the bus at Cruise set 64, and was running in the afternoon home into about a 15-20 MPH headwind..

I also had the Air-Conditioner on its Max cold setting. (the A/C is in back and im up front.. that needs help.. 2nd coil?)

all I can say is I never OverHeated the bus.. however im UNIMPRESSED by the cooling system in it...

the highest temp I reached was 213 for a brief time, most of the time I ran in the 207-210 range my oil temperature was in the 205-214 range..

average engine load was over 65% so i was pushing the 444E pretty hard.

my Transmission never reached 180.. it came close at one point but it didnt.

I like to blame the IHC 1/2 radiator 1/2 Turbo cooler design, however in my DT-360 foot to the floor I never go above 190 on the Hottest July days in the south...

there are plenty of medium duty trucks out there running 444E's I see them all over.. and they have an A/C unit in front and those guys run the freeways..

maybe I shouldnt worry about a 213 temp gauge on a 444E? am I over-sensitive to this matter? i always thought 230 on a 444E is alarm bells time.. so that seems quite close...

to me i like my diesels running cooler than 210... it has a 180 Thermostat in it now as well...

I keep thinking its time to re-engineer the front cooling system, but then part of me thinks the factory had a design that must work as even though I hear about some isolated incidents of overheating I dont see it plaguing the school bus fleet boards or even here... so alas it seems that rather than over-think, that perhaps i need to look further into the operation of the factory cooling system first...

my radiator fins visibly appear clear and free of debris.. there are a few gaps for air around the turbo cooler, so I may make flaps for them so i dont suck air from other areas..

my coolant looks nice to the eye, but i have no idea if the radiator might be partially clogged inside.. that would obviously also affect the temperature of the air reaching the fan clutch... if the radiator cant efficiently move heat from the coolant to the air..

so I do have one question and that is do water-pumps "wear?" we all know they can leak or squeak, or just plain break.. but does 8000+ hours and 149,000 miles on a water pump cause any issues? or do the impellers typically not wear on them?

I would think if the water pump were inefficient i wouldve had circulation issues with my heating loops in the winter time...

-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

YEs, lets get this totally figured out.
My factory rad looks pretty ragged adn you saw there was some fin damage going on there. I'm down to buy the full rad if we can figure out where to mount the charge air cooler.
I'm wanting to be able to run wot and stay nice and cool all summer.
I'm wondering the same thing about the water pump. If I'm doing all the other cooling upgrades I may as well pop for a new one. This one looks original and if it is its got nearly 16,000 hours on it!
A 180 thermostat and a fan adjustment are on the immediate list.

[jazty]

Do water pumps wear? Oh yes. ☺️
I've seen two cases of leak-free, but very worn water pumps.
One had serious cavitation damage. Not sure why, but it had surely lost a good deal of efficiency from the rough blades.
The second was in my Subaru. It was an aftermarket pump and lasted just under a year... Grrrr. The impeller had slowly been getting pushed down the shaft until the impellers met the casing. By the time I opened it up there was almost nothing left of the impellers. The symptoms were overheating while really pushing it, but otherwise it ran fine.

Just anecdotes, really

[cadillackid]

my fan is adjusted down all the way they allow on the clutch.. Horton makes an electric clutch upgrade kit.. that works off of engine coolant temp vs radiator air temp.. so it can be made to engage at whatever.. it can be conencted to the ECM and then programmed on / off through the computer, or the update kit comes wit ha separate sensor you mount .. that kit is pricey though... its somewhat rare now.. anywhere from $750-900 is what ive seen it around for...

I guess my point though is befoire going serious on re-engineering to remote turbo coolers and full rads, is there an engineering problem or an operations problem?

I was driving along I-4 and a landscaping truck.. a 4700.. said T-444E on the side, one of those box type with the open back full of mulch towing a trailer, 2 dudes inside A/C blasting.. they passed me maybe at 66 or 67.. slow pass.. I havent yet found a 4700 radiator listed for a 444E that wasnt a 1/2 rad (other than an RE).. now maybe their gauge was plastered in the red.. I have no idea.. but they had to be heavier than my 6 window skoolie...

im considering tearing apart the factory cooling system, completely flush it down, replace with ELC coolant, watter wetter, water pump, and have the installed radiator inspected for damage, clogging, etc.. if its no good, replace that.. my fan clutch is already new and does work....

and then see where im at... it does look like the ones with electric clutches on the fans were designed to start up at 205.. so evidently navistar doesnt think 205 is too hot..
-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by jazty

Do water pumps wear? Oh yes. ☺️
I've seen two cases of leak-free, but very worn water pumps.
One had serious cavitation damage. Not sure why, but it had surely lost a good deal of efficiency from the rough blades.
The second was in my Subaru. It was an aftermarket pump and lasted just under a year... Grrrr. The impeller had slowly been getting pushed down the shaft until the impellers met the casing. By the time I opened it up there was almost nothing left of the impellers. The symptoms were overheating while really pushing it, but otherwise it ran fine.

Just anecdotes, really

good stuff..

you have a T-444E where does your temp run when you are bustin it to the walls in 90 degree heat? on the highways?

I just know I want to solve the issues.. im not a happy camper if I have to shut off the A/C and turn on all the heaters in hot summer heat.. so i want to keep the bus cool and happy

-Christopher

[jazty]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

you have a T-444E where does your temp run when you are bustin it to the walls in 90 degree heat? on the highways?

When I hit the highway I'm usually cruising at 100kph (~62mph) with the engine temperature hovering around 200F. The engine has been warmer than I'd like a couple times, but outside of my usual driving experience.

Once was after pulling off the freeway and entering city grid-lock somewhere down in Georgia on a hot summer's day. Probably due to my fan clutch not being up to snuff.

The other two times were in Texas. Once in Big Bend National Park while driving up to Chisos Basin in Big Bend and then driving out of the Rio Grande lowlands north. That is definitely 'busting it to the wall' and it did start to overheat.

I'm about 80% sure that my fan clutch needs replacing. That could account for part of it.. I'll need to replace it and try Big Bend again!

I'll be watching this discussion intently.

[cadillackid]

im going to Orlando again monday and its going to be mid-upper 80s again.. I think I'll run the trip at 62 this time to see if that makes a difference. before i replaced and adjusted my fan clutch, 62 ran it up to 222 or so where I then turned off the A/C and turned on all my heaters.. and that was in october from texas to florida.. i think it was like 90 or just above part of the trip... the fan clutch got replaced late october.. and i drove it from florida to ohio.. which was not hot so i never ran above 200...

I need to get this bus up to ohio where i have space and tools to tear it apart...

-Christopher