Is it Legal to register a converted bus as a "Bus"

[skooolie]

Hey there I was wondering what were some of disadvantages of having a converted school bus registered and insured as a School Bus vs. RV/Motor Home/Van? I am from Georgia and apparently we have strict laws about titles... If I have to bail out on this project I would like to know as soon as possible . Much appreciated to anyone that posts. Kindest Regards, Joe


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[Bondsman]

I live in Macon Ga. I purchased a 7 window 2003 International 3800. Went to my local tag office showed the lady pictures of what I had done. Removed all passenger seats, bus signs, stripes and lights. Got title back it says Motor Home. When I finish inside I will go after insurance. Don't talk to the IDIOTS AT DMV.

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[turf]

you can register as a bus.

if you do, then

you'll need a commercial drivers license with a passenger endorsement.
you'll need a commercial vehicle insurance.
your bus will have to pass safety inspections each year.
you will have to stop at all weigh stations
you will be subject to driving time limits and HOS

its cheapest to convert the title to motor home or rv. most states let a normal driver's license operate an rv. its cheaper to insure an rv. the are no DOT regulations covering RVs, no need to stop at weigh stations.


the word "bus" means "commercial" to any insurance agent or law officer. Bus means you are transporting passengers for money.

the words "rv" or "rv conversion" means it is a private vehicle. its not subject to commercial rules.

in dealing with the dmv and insurers, it will go much easier if you stop confusing them with the word "bus" and use "RV" instead.

[Robin97396]

You can also register a bus as a van. Standard car plates, but the insurance is still a Progressive commercial policy.

[dan-fox]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

You can also register a bus as a van. Standard car plates, but the insurance is still a Progressive commercial policy.

Do we have any verified stories here of people registering 40 foot long "vans", or is this a phenom limited to shorties?

[Robin97396]

Mine is a 26' TC1000. Yeah, that's about one foot longer than the average five window shorty.

There are numerous buses in Oregon that apparently have never heard of Skoolies, and as you know most people that live in buses get the 40' models. I see buses every where I go around here.

In Oregon you can register with the DMV as a motorhome, but self built RVs are not insurable. Apparently the rules have changed in the recent years. There are a number of us that are licensed and designated as a van on our titles. That makes us insurable in this state, however that also causes us to create a live in bus in a significantly different manner in order to avoid crossing the motorhome/RV line.

To answer your question, no I can't verify that a 40' bus can be registered as a van. Many of the buses here were apparently grandfathered as RVs if they were built, registered and insured before the laws changed, but I can't verify that either. The insurance people are very tight lipped about why these changes have taken place.

I suspect some people are using the chrome yellow buses to haul goods interstate. That does sound kind of like a cartel method of transport.

I've met other bus owners here in Oregon, but I've only confirmed the van registration with one other bus owner and he didn't have a 40' bus.

[Rengald]

I'm in Minnesota and currently my 39' school bus is legally a "bus" because I needed to transfer the title and I wasn't allowed to own a "school bus" according to the DMV. I have plates and a title and all that but it's not insured. I'm trying to hurry up and get the conversion to a state where I can get the title changed to "RV".

As I don't have a CDL I don't think I can drive a "bus" anyway. Even without the seats and whatnot I still think I need a CDL to drive it. (Not positive about that though)

Once it's an RV I shouldn't have any problems there though... (hopefully)

[family wagon]

I respectfully disagree with turf's summary. It may be that there are some jurisdictions where what's written is all true, but there are jurisdictions where some of it isn't.

The mere fact that the federal vehicle ID tag says "bus" doesn't automatically invoke all those headaches. For example my "other car," a Nissan NV3500 passenger van, is clearly marked "BUS" on that tag yet there's no need for a DOT number, log books, etc. This is because my family uses it privately. If I were operating a shuttle service then those things could come into play.

Some US states (I'm intentionally avoiding words on the spectrum of "a few" to "most" because I don't have data to support such a choice) allow drivers with a normal passenger car type license, called class D in my state, to drive pretty much anything so long as it's for their private use. As soon as a person starts using the vehicle in commerce by carrying objects or people for hire then commercial driver and vehicle licensing, logging, and other requirements are activated.

A notable exception is carrying people: whether for hire or not, a passenger endorsement may be required simply because a private bus is capable of containing more than 16 people. No big deal; a passenger endorsement is easy to add on a driver license and costs only a dollar or two per year.

[Robin97396]

If your bus is a privately owned vehicle you are not required to have a commercial class "A" license. As family wagon said, if you're using it for business you are subject to all the rules and laws of a commercial vehicle, including upgrading your license.

Each state varies so you'll have to check with your local DMV for the final word. That said, if you don't get the answer you wanted from the DMV clerk, back out and go to another DMV in a smaller town. Don't lie to the DMV clerk in the slightest, but don't offer information that might change their minds either. Some DMV clerks just want to process you and get you out of their building while others seem to want to cause you stress. Don't be afraid to go to an outlying DMV.

I don't think of it as deceiving a DMV clerk. If you don't get the answer you want it's much more likely the clerk simply doesn't have adequate knowledge to set you up properly. It's still legal to own and drive a bus in this country.

[Jolly Roger]

Most standard state? License cover a vehicle up to 26,000 GVW.
At 26,001 you fall into a different bracket.
I am insured and registered as a bus for private use.
I have a 60 passenger bus with air brakes and a class C license.
I don't know that I will change my title to RV.

[Robin97396]

I've done it both ways in the past. RV insurance is usually cheaper but the license itself is more expensive. I had a shortie insured as a van for two years, then as an RV for two years. My total insurance and registration cost difference was only $6.

[FunkyChickenBus]

SC has us registered as a bus with a tag that starts BU.
We have motorhome insurance through Progressive (liability only).

[Robin97396]

So, where has the teamdixiechickens coop been traveling to?

[FunkyChickenBus]

Sigh...nowhere but around home since we finished the circumnavigation in 2014.

But, we are doing a major refit right now with plans to ship her to Argentina Jan 2019 and drive back up through South America. It's been too long since we've been out exploring!

[glenn bell]

In Pa we were told that if we keep it as a bus even for private use the registration would be $11 per rated capacity on top of whatever the base price registration is. Even though we riped out the seats its whatever Blue Bird rated the bus at.

[FunkyChickenBus]

I think this issue is so location-dependent. We had early problems finding non-commercial insurance, but then found Natl General through this forum and got insurance easily. Since then, we've had Geico and now Progressive, as an RV.

I've never submitted any sort of photos or documentation to the various insurers, and in fact, until last month, we had all of the seats still in our shortie. We won't be adding any kind of permanent "kitchen", but instead will be building a chuckbox type setup to access from the outside via the old wheelchair lift door.

I agree with the consensus that if you don't get a good answer on your first trip to the DMV, go back and try again with another agent, and see if you can find the relevant statues specific to your state for registration.

I have no idea how complicated it would be to get anything but liability coverage, and honestly would never try on our bus. Any improvements we make to the interior would be a loss we'd eat if it got destroyed in a fire or whatnot. It wouldn't be worth it for me to pay comp and collision on a vehicle as old as it is, and I don't carry it on my low-value pax vehicles either.

Now, I can tell you that obtaining liability cover (green card) insurance in Europe for a school bus is a nearly impossible task, and I went through a dozen "no" answers before finding someone who would give me 3 months' worth when we went traveling. Even then, I shudder to think of what the claims process would have involved if we'd actually had an accident!

[skooolie]

Thanks for all your input guys you all have most helpful. I will say this.. not sure why my insurance agent was interrogating me as to what I would be doing with my bus. "What will be used for the empty space?", "what will be in the back of the bus?" all these questions for liability insurance? what was her motive? It was as if I were going to be dropped if I did any living modifications . I just said it was going to be used to for personal and such.. regardless , I got it it done


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[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by family wagon

I respectfully disagree with turf's summary. It may be that there are some jurisdictions where what's written is all true, but there are jurisdictions where some of it isn't.

The mere fact that the federal vehicle ID tag says "bus" doesn't automatically invoke all those headaches. For example my "other car," a Nissan NV3500 passenger van, is clearly marked "BUS" on that tag yet there's no need for a DOT number, log books, etc. This is because my family uses it privately. If I were operating a shuttle service then those things could come into play.

Some US states (I'm intentionally avoiding words on the spectrum of "a few" to "most" because I don't have data to support such a choice) allow drivers with a normal passenger car type license, called class D in my state, to drive pretty much anything so long as it's for their private use. As soon as a person starts using the vehicle in commerce by carrying objects or people for hire then commercial driver and vehicle licensing, logging, and other requirements are activated.

A notable exception is carrying people: whether for hire or not, a passenger endorsement may be required simply because a private bus is capable of containing more than 16 people. No big deal; a passenger endorsement is easy to add on a driver license and costs only a dollar or two per year.

THIS !!

I was told by OHIO DMV... note OHIO, not Georgia.. that if I register a Bus as a bus, and dont engage in any 'Commerce' with it then no DOT number, nor logs, weight tickets, inspections, etc are necessary...

HOWEVER CDL REQUIREMENTS APPLY if the FITTED seating of the bus is Over 15 (including the driver) adults.. (children seating only applies to school busses registered as school busses in ohio)..

OR. my GVWR is tagged as 26,001 lbs or Higher..

then I would need a CDL to drive it. and a medical Certificate on file if I was going to drive the bus outside of the ohio state lines.. (this is a federal Regulation).

if my bus has air brakes i would need to obtain an air brake endorsement to my CDL.

the CDL is a DRIVER requirement and not a REGISTRATION requirement.

this is OHIO regulations on it..

I have One of my busses titiled and registeredd as a Motorhome, the other of my busses is titled and registered as a Bus.. the ione thats registered as a bus is GVWR of 17,500 and is Seated for 14 , so no CDL is required.

-Christopher

[TheStinker]

So if my bus (26ft.) is registered as a bus and never change that, it should make insurance simpler and cheaper right?

[cadillackid]

ever ystate is different, dependoing on its GVWR and how they measure capacity you then may need a CDL to drive it..

in OHIO.. stress.. OHIO (check your state).. they go by FITTED capacity for CDL requirements.. so if your bus has less than 15 seat capacity and has a GVWR less than 26,000 lbs you done need a CDL..

Michigan for instance goes on PLACARD and DESIGN capacity.. so in their case even if tyou take all the seats out.. the bus was DESIGNED to seat say 32 so thatsd the number they use and you would need a CDL to drive it..

check your state's CDL requrements..
-Christopher