Permanent changes

[Dammit]

Howdy!

I'm in Denver, CO and I currently have State Farm commercial insurance. First thing they required was pulling the seats and sending a photo, which I did right away. They seem real relaxed on their requirements, though they've repeatedly said "no permanent changes to the bus".

So, does anyone know what makes a change "permanent" in the eyes of an underwriter? I have no intent to ever put those stupid seats back in, seems pretty permanent to me, lol, but then I read where folks are chopping the roofs, installing decks, etc.

They've told me it was okay to install a roof rack. Is that considered permanent?

I mean, anything can be put in there for good, and anything can be removed with a screwdriver or a torch, so where is the line?

I did a search for this topic, so if it's already been discussed, my apologies. Please post links to relevant threads.

Thanks in advance!

- Vic

[EastCoastCB]

Well id just leave them alone and hope theyre done asking for pics I reckon.

[Seroflorus]

hhmm...two things:

1. I'd take into consideration what your state's policy is over your insurance co (on the premise it is easier to change insurance providers than states). If you plan to retitle then I think the state has first dibs on your man hours. If its a sign-an-affidavit kind of state...lucky you!

SIDE NOTE: If you're planning to keep the title as bus then find out if you need a complete bus to do the test to get a new license (assuming you have a class C or passenger license now and will need a class B for your 72 passenger....depends on GVWR)...if you do, you will need to find a complete bus or make your bus complete again by putting the seats back in. all.of.them.

2. I think you should call the insurance co and ask them to be more specific. It costs time and money and not a little effort to make any changes so I'd want to know just what they mean rather than take off on a mod that I may not want or not want to do now just for them. Permanent may mean screws holding cabinets down instead of cabinets just sitting inside or holes for water and power inlet/outflow.

[Dammit]

Originally Posted by Seroflorus

hhmm...two things:

1. I'd take into consideration what your state's policy is over your insurance co (on the premise it is easier to change insurance providers than states). If you plan to retitle then I think the state has first dibs on your man hours. If its a sign-an-affidavit kind of state...lucky you!

SIDE NOTE: If you're planning to keep the title as bus then find out if you need a complete bus to do the test to get a new license (assuming you have a class C or passenger license now and will need a class B for your 72 passenger....depends on GVWR)...if you do, you will need to find a complete bus or make your bus complete again by putting the seats back in. all.of.them.

2. I think you should call the insurance co and ask them to be more specific. It costs time and money and not a little effort to make any changes so I'd want to know just what they mean rather than take off on a mod that I may not want or not want to do now just for them. Permanent may mean screws holding cabinets down instead of cabinets just sitting inside or holes for water and power inlet/outflow.

Well, Colorado is pretty relaxed on their RV conversion policies. I don't remember the exact list, but they have 6 things and the vehicle must meet 4. Funny though, they only require a signed statement of fact regarding the 4 items, so that leaves lots to interpretation. They're more concerned with a certified weight and a VIN inspection...

As far as bus/RV titling, as long as the vehicle isn't capable of carrying more than 15 passengers and no longer has school bus equipment (8-ways, stop sign, etc), they don't require a CDL.

Reason I don't want to interrogate the insurance company too much is for fear of having them blatantly refuse a modification sight unseen. They know the seats are out (they required that for the policy), they've okayed a roof rack and flooring system. I told them I planned to put in a bed, couches, real primitive plumbing (gravity only, catch tanks). She'll only be a recreational vehicle, not a motorhome. My needs are less extravagant for one week a year in the desert.

I'd hate to get in a fender bender somewhere and get denied coverage because of some minor modification that had nothing to do with the driving operation of the bus. I guess that's where I was going with my original post. I'm mainly curious if anyone knows first-hand where they draw their lines.

Who knows what I may decide to do in the future...