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Old 02-05-2017, 07:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I just toured a 17' Jayco that was being delivered to the dealer. Window sticker price in the 120's. Seems like flimsy junk. I mean, its nice, but doesn't seem like its gonna hold up like any bus.
I went to our local RV show and couldn't believe what 50k will get you... I would rather tent camp.
I have always wanted to convert a bus to a camper. Since highschool... Lots of years ago. That RV show sealed the deal... And for the wife on board (win/win)

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Old 02-05-2017, 07:57 PM   #42
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I cannot vouch for how current this info is, but I have checked several of the states info and if the vehicle is not transporting more than X number of people and is for personal use, it does not matter how it is titled, a CDL is not required. What is required in most all states - are special endorsements. A CDL is a very specific license for COMMERCIAL DRIVERS. If you are not commercially driving the vehicle, and it is for personal use, and you have the appropriate endorsements (Air Brakes is the most common, followed by oversized vehicle) then you are fine.

I argued for two days with a family member over this and did a lot of calling and researching. We need to make sure there is a clear understanding of CDL vs endorsements on a Class A license. In some states, you take the CDL portion of the exam that is related to the endorsement you are looking to obtain, but you are not required to take the other portions.
I failed to include my quoted link http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml

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Old 02-05-2017, 08:15 PM   #43
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Our SC short bus is titled as a bus and we have insurance as a personal bus, liability only. I'm not going sugarcoat that finding insurance at the start was tough, because everyone wanted to sell us commercial policies. After calling it a bus conversion, things actually got easier.
Our bus is standard, has traveled all the way around the world with the original seats and no upgrades, save a low metal roof rack and a big job box bolted to the floor in the back.
In preparation for another trip planned, we are actually at last turning it more into a skoolie, with the seats reconfigured and some more mods for comfort.
Interestingly, I think the fact it looked exactly like a real school bus is why we have had very little trouble when traveling, with the exception of the usual "dollar stops" for bribes in Central Asia.
In the US, we never got so much as a sideways look from the law.

Like many others, I agree that this article is just scare mongering on the part of the insurer.

As someone who takes our bus into areas with unimaginably bad roads, safety and security are very important, and I would not consider any mods that change the inherent stability of our solid little bus. We owned a 1978 Airstream Argosy motor home for years, and I can tell you even on the older ones, the construction is nothing like our little 1991 bus.


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Old 02-05-2017, 09:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I don't need a cdl if i'm tagged and registered for personal use.
Ins is just a piece of paper... an extra tax, really.
I really HATE paying for insurance..... It sometimes seems like flushing money down the toilet every month.

BUT..... I am sure glad that both of the fine folks that have hit me and totaled the vehicle that I was driving had "paid their tax". If they hadn't I would be screwed. Both accidents could be attributed to a moments distraction.

As much as it sucks, financial responsibility is a needful thing. If we are going to operate 2k-30k pound hunks of metal at 60+ mph we need to have a mechanism in place that manages the costs when something goes terribly wrong.

While we all hope that it never happens to us, something as simple as a brief distraction or a minor failure such as a blowout (I have had 3 driving a bus) could result in our 20k-30k lb bus causing damage that we are responsible for. The two times that I have been in a serious accident the insurance company paid between $30k-$50k to cover damages and medical bills.

If I were at fault in an accident a $40k liability would ruin me. If I happened to hit an expensive car or cause significant harm to the occupants it could easily be $100k or more....


I really HATE paying for insurance..... It sometimes seems like flushing money down the toilet every month. I have decided that it is a necessary evil.

My $0.02 worth.
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:47 AM   #45
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one....

A couple years ago, my brother owned a large almost-new toy-hauler/camper 5th-wheel trailer. Top of the line equipment.

He stored it at my house for a little while, and I traveled with him from Texas to California, and I borrowed it for a couple weekends.

And I examined it pretty closely while I did some maintenance on it.

And I was AGHAST.

Just like several of you already posted.... The thing was PATHETIC.

The water heater is plumbed so you can isolate it from the rest of the system, in connection with storage in freezing weather, plus there is a drain hose.

The four valves, and the drain hose, and That Stuff in general... looked to have been planned and assembled by an eight year old on crack.

If I had taken a photo inside that cupboard (below the kitchen sink).... Every last one of you would have sworn it was a photo of wreckage from a horrible crash.

There were instructions. "First, look for a silver valve..." sort'a things. I have a hunch the dealers installed a few tons of new water heaters and related frost-cracked parts every spring.

And you know what?.... I have known some RV owners who seemed to consider trips to the dealer for repairs as pleasant outings and social occasions.

Rant over. LOL!

Yeah, let's all help each other -- and other skoolie owners we run into. This forum is surely an excellent tool for spreading good information.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:31 AM   #46
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They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
Where does grafting an aircraft nose onto a bus fall in?
I don't think insurance companies would like us doing that. Now- I KNOW you're a damn good builder. I'm not trying to argue or slight you in any way.
I just think if we're gona start pointing the finger and saying insurance companies are denying skoolies cause of how someone or their rig may LOOK, then its worth mentioning.
I think your albatross is gona look really cool, fwiw.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:15 AM   #47
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Thanks! And yes, you are thinking correctly about insuring the Albatross. But she will be built, and then we will figure out the insurance separately.
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:36 AM   #48
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I've always said on here when it comes up that keeping the weight low and centered is important.
I cringe at some of the "double deckers" and home-made scary things done with some buses out there.

I chose to not go the "RV" title route. I'm just insuring it for my personal mobile office and storage. For PERSONAL use. They ask no questions, just send a bill. My conversion won't look radical or hippie, so they'll never really have any reason to say much...
Sometimes I thing titling as an rv makes it more of a hassle than it has to be.
Get a liability policy as a bus for personal use and do what you want, just don't mention it to them, especially the word "conversioN"
Maybe I'm not "converting" mine, I'm just making a "few small changes" to my "bus".
I like your post because for some reason VT did not retitle as an RV but kept it as a bus. I filled out all the forms correctly but it still came back as a bus. I didn't call them and ask what went wrong but continued on and got my insurance. So, now i have insurance on my bus for personal use
The reason I'm relieved is because I didn't need to lie and everything is on the up and up.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:48 AM   #49
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Does not that require you to have a bigger driver license? Wouldn't be an issue for many of us owners, but I like to be able to let a (competent) travel-companion drive, when appropriate.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:15 AM   #50
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Depends on passenger capacity, and weight.
Neither of mine qualify for needing a cdl. I've double, triple, quadruple checked.
Amazing how much less red tape we have than some places.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:21 AM   #51
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A while back, I ran across the same page on ASS...excuse me, AIS Insurance's website. I think they updated their graphics because I don't think they had, when I looked at it, the JPG of a Wayne-body school bus - which the manufacturer aptly named Lifeguard. (Same model I have except on a Chevy chassis.)

Much of what I think on the insurance problem has already been stated on this thread. I can add, however, my experience as a school bus driver, handling a school bus in strong crosswinds, and find them far more stable than my Winnebago. The buses, even without passengers, are several times heavier than the 7,600-lb Winnie. You still have to be extra-alert in a crosswind, but those stix-n-staples rigs are scary as hell.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:25 AM   #52
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I've always said on here when it comes up that keeping the weight low and centered is important.
I cringe at some of the "double deckers" and home-made scary things done with some buses out there.

I chose to not go the "RV" title route. I'm just insuring it for my personal mobile office and storage. For PERSONAL use. They ask no questions, just send a bill. My conversion won't look radical or hippie, so they'll never really have any reason to say much...
Sometimes I thing titling as an rv makes it more of a hassle than it has to be.
Get a liability policy as a bus for personal use and do what you want, just don't mention it to them, especially the word "conversioN"
Maybe I'm not "converting" mine, I'm just making a "few small changes" to my "bus".
I think the RV insurance is cheaper than a bus for personal use. Can I ask how much it costs for personal use insurance? As an RV, I'm hoping to get insured for around $200/year.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:51 PM   #53
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A few points.... I think we are all on the same page.

I don't buy the "buses are dangerous" argument for a nanosecond. I'm debating filing a complaint and asking for actuarial data with the Texas Department of Insurance. For an insurer to deny coverage it must be based on sound experience backed by actuarial data.

Here is one accident involving a bus:


Motorhome - single car accident:


Motorhome..... yes it's there... just look around the couches... God I hope the people lived.



Motorhome on Schoolbus...



School buses are required to meet very stringent state and Federal safety standards for accident protection. Motorhomes are not.

It's not necessarily about cost..... It is about safety. The kids on this bus lived to tell about it. Bus is scrap, but it did it's job.


P.S. the Motorcoaches don't fare that well either....
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:53 PM   #54
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Maybe they're thinking "buses are dangerous to the other vehicles involved".

Still sucks.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:58 PM   #55
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I had to dig to find Skoolie accidents.... This was run away brakes.... but I bet the occupants survived....


This looks like a Skoolie.... a Semi hit it. That's alot of damage to that bus, but I bet the driver lived.

Other side


If skoolies were dangerous the media would be all the heck over it..... and I'm having a tough time finding wrecks with them. Motorhome wrecks on the other hand are extremely common and extremely destructive.


Yes this requires care to drive....


So does this, but it's easier to insure than a bus


I call bull turds! I think if we start filing complaints with the State Insurance Departments you'll see some revised guidelines. Carriers HATE regulatory complaints....more than you can possibly imagine.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:02 PM   #56
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Stuff like this would be a big deterrent for me if I owned an insurance company.

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Old 10-09-2018, 07:22 PM   #57
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Yea... really the first one is not as big a deal.

The second one is a failure of the state DMV safety inspection. It's a modified vehicle and should be required to pass a rigorous inspection.

Heck in Texas we can't even stop blue ultra bright headlights. In Virginia they were really strict 30 years ago when I was in HS.

Every state still has a risk pool and I seem to recall that is how my first bus was insured. They never even saw the roof deck I built on it. lol. The roof deck did make the bus sway when you were up there... but my fat behind shaking can make the bus sway.....

I'm less worried about the loss of my Bus than I am about protecting myself from the risk of financial loss in an accident.

In my current coach I'm worried about an accident because there isn't much between me and the front bumper...... That said, you can pull that bus by the front bumper and it weighs 34,500! It has pull points built in and I have PTO pins to drop in there for winching.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:46 PM   #58
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I had to dig to find Skoolie accidents.... This was run away brakes.... but I bet the occupants survived....
Indeed they did. This was a RAGBRAI team support bus. The fates of the two occupants is described in a Des Moines Register article excerpted below:

The bus driver, Ronald Laing, 40, of Des Moines was treated for his injuries at Guttenberg Municipal Hospital and released . Passenger Brandi Helmkamp, 30, of Fort Dodge, who was ejected through the windshield, was flown to University Hospitals in Iowa City, where she was in serious condition, according to the Clayton County Sheriff's Office."

The bus went off the road and struck railroad tracks, pushing the rails off-center. Talk about, "to every action is an equal and opposite reaction!"

An S&S rig would almost certainly have disintegrated. Not so certain is whether survivors would have been found in the debris field.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:05 PM   #59
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WOW..... amazing. Rails are really stout. Glad to hear the occupants lived.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:38 PM   #60
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WOW..... amazing. Rails are really stout. Glad to hear the occupants lived.
The driver did. I think the jury's still out on that passenger, though. Hope he or she recovers!
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