Registration worries in Georgia

[EastCoastCB]

If all else fails you could "sell" it to someone in a nearby state, let them do the paperwork, then "sell" it back. Got any relatives in FL or SC?

[cadillackid]

have to be careful with that... Ohio started to get wise to it... it used to be whenever you "sell" a car to a friend you would always write Gift on the title so the new person wouldnt have to pay sales tax on it.. but they started questioning and threatening people who were Gifting nearly new cars.. in some cases sending them tax liens in the mail stating the value of the car they bought was income.. and required to pay "use" tax...

-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

have to be careful with that... Ohio started to get wise to it... it used to be whenever you "sell" a car to a friend you would always write Gift on the title so the new person wouldnt have to pay sales tax on it.. but they started questioning and threatening people who were Gifting nearly new cars.. in some cases sending them tax liens in the mail stating the value of the car they bought was income.. and required to pay "use" tax...

-Christopher

a gifted car is more expensive to register here. I always put $300 or so and pay the $21 in tax.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by rjnye79

This is very intriguing. I wonder if there's anyone who has successfully executed this process in Georgia. They kept pointing to the bus designation being assigned to my VIN. When the vehicle gets registered in VT, will the VIN designation suddenly start popping up as RV?

I'm also in GA, and it sounds to me like one of two things is going on here (maybe both).

In the last few years, GA switched to charging all the "Ad Valorem" tax upon initial registration of a vehicle. So one might pay several hundred dollars that first year, but every year after that, the tag is all of $20. That may be why the tag is so expensive ...

The other things might be that they are trying to register it as a commercial, passenger-hauling business bus that you intend to make money with. Obviously this is wrong for most of us here.

There *IS* a difference in how it's *TITLED* and *REGISTERED*.

Christopher is mistaken in that manufacturers do *NOT* issue titles! They issue a "Certificate of Origin", which states then use to issue titles (I've actually gone through the process when delivering new trucks to customers). The Certificate will contain the VIN, Make, Model, Year, and for large vehicles, number of axles, GAWR's, GVWR, GCWR, and whatever else I'm forgetting. *NONE* of this can be edited or corrected by states (or at least, they're not supposed to); a replacement Certificate should be issued by the manufacturer if something is wrong.

The bus is titled as a bus and will be until the End Of Time (as long as you stay in GA); but it can be registered as a school bus (which counties and private schools do all the time), a passenger carrying coach (common for businesses that carry passengers for profit), a private coach (common for individuals as well as nonprofits to carry folks to events, I think many churches can do this too), or even a business use, cargo carrying vehicle. Obviously we're aiming for Motorhome/RV designation here, but it may be worth checking out Private Coach, as well.

[cadillackid]

I never reember stating manufacturers issued titles... at least I never meant to imply they do..however vehicles CAN be re-titled and even re-classified in many states... Ohio has a procedure if you DE-Rate your vehicle and get an inspection report stating as much.. De-rating meaning changing weight class. Ohio is Easy when it comes to De-rating a bus's seating capacity... the registration and driver-licensing requirements in ohio are based on Fitted seat capacity as opposed to Designed seat capacity.

brad is right in the fact you cannot change the Designed seatng capacity regardless of how many seats you install or not... and on a bus DE-rating the weight would be nearly impossible to do as you would have to basically change the chassis / frame of the bus..

some of the Hot-Shotters De-rate their rigs in varius ways and get them re-classified as i guess there is some licensing requirement for Trailer-towing more than 10,000 lbs..

for a private bus in Ohio no CDL is needed if it is Fitted for less than 16 total people and is under 26,000 lbs GVWR..

if you sign an affidavit and make modifications as noted by the state for permanent sleeping, cooking and eating, and refrigeration then it can be Re-titled as a Motorhome.. it will change body type from BU to MH on the title..

Ohio treats titling and registration as completely separate entities.. and in many cases you can have a Bus titled as a BU and register it as a passenger car if it seats 9 or less.. (15 or less if you state it is a Ride-share / club wagon vehicle)...

if its a titled as a MH they will only let you register it as a Motorhome...

I have no idea how georgia or any other state works in regards to changing classes on the title.. and then registration / licensing classes required (CDL or not)... seems there are federal guidelines and then ever ystate appears to have their own also
-Christopher

[rjnye79]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I'm also in GA, and it sounds to me like one of two things is going on here (maybe both).

In the last few years, GA switched to charging all the "Ad Valorem" tax upon initial registration of a vehicle. So one might pay several hundred dollars that first year, but every year after that, the tag is all of $20. That may be why the tag is so expensive ...

The other things might be that they are trying to register it as a commercial, passenger-hauling business bus that you intend to make money with. Obviously this is wrong for most of us here.

There *IS* a difference in how it's *TITLED* and *REGISTERED*.

Christopher is mistaken in that manufacturers do *NOT* issue titles! They issue a "Certificate of Origin", which states then use to issue titles (I've actually gone through the process when delivering new trucks to customers). The Certificate will contain the VIN, Make, Model, Year, and for large vehicles, number of axles, GAWR's, GVWR, GCWR, and whatever else I'm forgetting. *NONE* of this can be edited or corrected by states (or at least, they're not supposed to); a replacement Certificate should be issued by the manufacturer if something is wrong.

The bus is titled as a bus and will be until the End Of Time (as long as you stay in GA); but it can be registered as a school bus (which counties and private schools do all the time), a passenger carrying coach (common for businesses that carry passengers for profit), a private coach (common for individuals as well as nonprofits to carry folks to events, I think many churches can do this too), or even a business use, cargo carrying vehicle. Obviously we're aiming for Motorhome/RV designation here, but it may be worth checking out Private Coach, as well.

Wouldn't a private coach technically be considered a commercial vehicle, therefore requiring CDL and commercial insurance?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by rjnye79

Wouldn't a private coach technically be considered a commercial vehicle, therefore requiring CDL and commercial insurance?

No, because it's being used as "NOT FOR HIRE" (and some places require that phrase lettered on the bus or truck). Some places will allow "PRIVATE COACH" lettering on the bus to serve as an adequate substitute (common on some coaches used as tour buses for performers and the like). Many racing teams do just this with their big rigs, and it is by definition "Commercial Vehicle for Private Use" (what many of our insurance policies are). Presumably, since this is not a commercial venture, you do not need commercial coverage, CDL, or commercial operating authority.

Georgia recognizes 3 basic *commercial* passenger uses for buses ... basically charter, per-passenger (think Greyhound), and limousine (Common for party buses, primarily for alcohol and window tint laws). Virtually everything else (as it will pertain to us, anyway) will fall under private coach, not for hire.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

No, because it's being used as "NOT FOR HIRE" (and some places require that phrase lettered on the bus or truck). Some places will allow "PRIVATE COACH" lettering on the bus to serve as an adequate substitute (common on some coaches used as tour buses for performers and the like). Many racing teams do just this with their big rigs, and it is by definition "Commercial Vehicle for Private Use" (what many of our insurance policies are). Presumably, since this is not a commercial venture, you do not need commercial coverage, CDL, or commercial operating authority.

Georgia recognizes 3 basic *commercial* passenger uses for buses ... basically charter, per-passenger (think Greyhound), and limousine (Common for party buses, primarily for alcohol and window tint laws). Virtually everything else (as it will pertain to us, anyway) will fall under private coach, not for hire.

what a cool way to do it...seems the most reasonable.. if its not for hire than it shouldnt require commercial licensing..

Ohio isnt that nice about it.. its completely by weight and seats in ohio in regards to CDL for the driver regardless of intended use.. , UNLESS it falls under the Motorhome category then a regular driver license applies to any size coach..

and it *IS* possible to make a semi tractor into a Motorhome classification.. (as long as it has a bed, a frig (or icebox), and a stove (or microwave), it can be titled and reg'd as a Motorhome.. theres some guys usng Class 8's as nearly daily drivers..

-Christopher

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what a cool way to do it...seems the most reasonable.. if its not for hire than it shouldnt require commercial licensing..

Ohio isnt that nice about it.. its completely by weight and seats in ohio in regards to CDL for the driver regardless of intended use.. , UNLESS it falls under the Motorhome category then a regular driver license applies to any size coach..

and it *IS* possible to make a semi tractor into a Motorhome classification.. (as long as it has a bed, a frig (or icebox), and a stove (or microwave), it can be titled and reg'd as a Motorhome.. theres some guys usng Class 8's as nearly daily drivers..

-Christopher

That's true, some of these Class 8 rigs don't require a CDL - but they *DO* require a Class A (non-CDL) at a minimum. Farmers fall under this classification as well. Pulling *ANY* trailer over 10K GVWR (Trailer weight) will put a driver into Class A territory. CDL or non-CDL will depend on what you're doing. Private use, campers and motorhomes, farmers and some others will be fine with the non-CDL (and I do believe they can even be had with the various endorsements). Drivers "earning their keep" will usually need the CDL. It can get pretty technical, and I don't want to derail the thread by getting into a long discussion with it (I'm happy to do so in another thread, though).

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what a cool way to do it...seems the most reasonable.. if its not for hire than it shouldnt require commercial licensing..

Ohio isnt that nice about it.. its completely by weight and seats in ohio in regards to CDL for the driver regardless of intended use.. , UNLESS it falls under the Motorhome category then a regular driver license applies to any size coach..

and it *IS* possible to make a semi tractor into a Motorhome classification.. (as long as it has a bed, a frig (or icebox), and a stove (or microwave), it can be titled and reg'd as a Motorhome.. theres some guys usng Class 8's as nearly daily drivers..

-Christopher

Mine is a private coach not for hire in FL.
And yeah, class 8 daily drivers exist. Quite a few here. A neighbor of mine supposedly uses his to "tow his john boat".

[BRAGeorgia]

I too am in Georgia and have a skoolie. They made me register it as a commercial vehicle, I pay about 630 a year for the tag. It was more the first year. I argued with the tag office forever and they sent me a form that a police officer would have to inspect it and determine it was a RV with bed restroom etc. When I pushed for actual requirements like toilet, bed, sink, etc they could not provide anything. They also said I could bring it by and they could look at it. Once I got it there, the supervisor looked at it and only really looked at the MFG plate/sticker that's inside the bus and clearly states its a Bus. She then told me It would always and forever have to be tagged as a commercial vehicle. I pretty much gave up after that and just pay the 600 a year. Insurance isin't bad though, That's about 600 a year too.

My bigger concern is DOT registration. I had lengthy conversations with DOT supervisors who classified me several different ways based on each conversation I had with them. Basically the end story was that I was classified as private cargo intrastate. My concern now is when I go camping, say in Virginia and I blow past weigh stations, what happens then? I've put about 8K miles on my bus passing several open weigh stations and have never been pulled over. I do have a CDL passenger and air brake endorsements, but wondering how much hot water i'd be in for not having a dot # or stopping at weigh stations. When I asked DOT this, the guy said as long as I was using it for personal use, I didn't have to stop at them.

This worries me a little bit as last time I was driving through FL GA line, there were very adamant signs, all trucks must pull through weigh station, even rental trucks. When I passed I saw RV's, private pull behind trailers, and rental trucks all in the line. I was in my F-150 so didn't have to stop, but wondered what would have happened if I passed in the bus.

Any one have any weigh station advice or experience in a skoolie.

[Bondsman]

I live in Macon, Ga. In Feb. 2017 I purchased a 7 window 2002 International 3800 Shorty BlueBird. I removed the seats, took Bill of Sales to County tag off showed them pics of inside of bus and pic of seats on my trailer going to the dump. Got title back as Motor home no problem. Those DMV people are IDIOTS.

[mysty]

Ultimately, I ended up purchasing the bus in my mom's name (since she's an Ohio resident.) Got it retitled easily. They just needed a notarized form stating the bus had been converted. My sis-in-law is a notary who knows what we are doing, so that was painless. Paid a $17 fee and voila, I now have a Ford motorhome! Next, she registered it as an RV. Since it's titled as a motorhome, no one questioned it. Then she called Progressive and said she had a new (used) motorhome. Never mentioned the word "bus." The title said motorhome, it was registered as a motorhome, so now it's insured as a motorhome. They did not ask for pics, receipts, or anything. We did liability and uninsured/underinsured motorist insurance only. Told them the motorhome is only worth about $5000. That was enough for me to drive it legally from Ohio to Georgia. It is now sitting in my driveway with Ohio plates.

The whole process took 2 days (and that was only because she didn't want to wait in the dmv office line the first day, so came back the following morning when the line was shorter!)

[cadillackid]

I have residence in ohio and florida.. my busses are registered in Ohio.. it was very easy... it sounds like those having georgia woes need to read the thread on vermont registrations..
-Christopher

[JKCebanosG]

So... do you need to wait until the bus is complete to change the title to private motor home or can it be done once the seats are removed and bus painted?

I'm 90% sure we're going to park it for the entire time we work on it, but just in case... I'd like to know for sure.

I've read sometimes an inspection is required, or photo proof, did you have to have an inspection or show proof before they issued the change?

Tia
Kat
Marietta (Cobb)

[mysty]

The clerks at the office on Lower Roswell didn't have any idea what to do with a bus and told me I'd have to contact the state office. They gave me a phone number to call, and when I tried that, I was told it would always be considered a bus in Georgia. It seems like I read that someone down in Macon had better luck, but that's a bit of a drive for us north otp folks.

Since registering in Ohio was an option for me, and they seem more familiar with the process up there, I just went that route instead of registering it as a commercial vehicle down here. Wish I could give you more encouraging news. Maybe try calling around at a few different tag offices and let us know if you find one that knows what they're doing.


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[Moose]

just picked up my tag and registration

[Sirdave]

I did title only and it came back as International Bus (even though I tried to explain to the clerk it was an RV) so my registration will look like yours. What did you insure it as? and how much was the insurance if you don't mind me asking?

[Moose]

I am insured commercial I will be using in biz for now. I think about $1200.

[Moose]

In my registration the "1996 Blue TC2000 BU" comes directly from the VIN number and in Georgia can not be changed to my understanding. But the classification can be changed and I was told in the commercial section you just leave it blank, indicating not commercial