Composting toilets; what to do with them?

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by brokedown

Maybe we're mixing terms. in this context, a wet toilet being a bucket full of wet poop bs a bucket of dry poop. I haven't been to your house but I'd assume you have a flushing toilet.

Pretty sure he's busting your balls.

[turf]

waste disposal is huge business around yellowstone. good luck finding an unlocked dumpster within a 100 miles of the park.

i was ticketed once north of yellowstone for using someone else's dumpster. they call it "theft of services".

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by turf

waste disposal is huge business around yellowstone. good luck finding an unlocked dumpster within a 100 miles of the park.

I don't doubt that a bit.

i was ticketed once north of yellowstone for using someone else's dumpster. they call it "theft of services".

As some dumpster services are paid for by the ton, yeah it kinda is. Others are by the load. So, yeah at Yellowstone it would be noticed. In Lebanon, KS who's only thing going for them is the geographic center of the lower 48, the dumpster at McDonald's is probably less guarded.

[Chadci]

Originally Posted by leadsled01

I think that human waste is not good for compost in your garden because we are meat eaters. Cows don't eat meat, that's why its good for the garden. Humanure is only possible if you can PROPERLY compost it.

My family eats plant based, would that make it usable?

[joeblack5]

Baby poop ‘cocktails’? NC researchers discover dirty diapers could help fight off cancer

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...217264155.html


As a kid in the country we had dried cow poop throwing battles.....
Poop is just poop, probably better not to lick or eat it.



Many , many , many, things are illegal by law and many , many , many, many, many things that are legal should be illegal. What do think that sanitary worker is getting exposed to if you just threw and broke 10 mercury containing fluorescent light bulbs in the dumpster?
Or what about these old defunct leaking buses that are on the road polluting the environment or messing with that sealed smoke screw because you really like to get up that hill a little faster during your vacation time.


The good thing about the litter box is that you get to inspect your own product and get close up with it. In this age of fear and cleanliness a little connection with yourself and natures processes would do a lot of people some good,



later J

Read more here: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...#storylink=cpy

[cleff413]

The main reason that composting human waste needs to be handled with more care has more to do with the type of pathogens that are potentially present. These being pathogens that infect humans, and therefore pose a biohazard. The second point to composting waste from omnivorous or carnivorous animals (including humans) is simply the chemical composition of the waste. Feces from omnivores and carnivores tend to have a higher nitrogen to carbon ratio (hotter) than those from grass eating herbivores. Omnivores like poultry will have an even "hotter" waste because the urine and feces are combined into one package simply speaking. And yes, chickens are definitely omnivores. If you have ever raised chickens you may have seen these evil dinosaurs brutally ripping apart a mouse from time to time. To repeat, though, I think the main concern with human waste is the specificity of the pathogens and parasites being tailored to human physiology and therefore a greater risk. There is some risk of zoonotic diseases (passing from animals to humans) especially in species with a long history in human agriculture or human contact, so this can be of concern but much less so that human waste.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cleff413

The main reason that composting human waste needs to be handled with more care has more to do with the type of pathogens that are potentially present. These being pathogens that infect humans, and therefore pose a biohazard. The second point to composting waste from omnivorous or carnivorous animals (including humans) is simply the chemical composition of the waste. Feces from omnivores and carnivores tend to have a higher nitrogen to carbon ratio (hotter) than those from grass eating herbivores. Omnivores like poultry will have an even "hotter" waste because the urine and feces are combined into one package simply speaking. And yes, chickens are definitely omnivores. If you have ever raised chickens you may have seen these evil dinosaurs brutally ripping apart a mouse from time to time. To repeat, though, I think the main concern with human waste is the specificity of the pathogens and parasites being tailored to human physiology and therefore a greater risk. There is some risk of zoonotic diseases (passing from animals to humans) especially in species with a long history in human agriculture or human contact, so this can be of concern but much less so that human waste.

That's kinda what I was thinking but properly composted this would not be an issue at all.


And if someone was really anal you could sterilize the compost using the oven and/or propane burner. Might take awhile and I recall that it stinks to high hell (something I saw on TV or read).

[cadillackid]

so then if the issue is that meat eaters poroduce more toxic waste, then why is it widely accepted and OK to bag and toss pet waste in a normal garbage can.. most people's dogs are not eating a plant based diet.. (im sure some are).. but most dog foods contain animal product in them as feed.. . along with the fact it also seems widely acceptable for people to change baby in a public restroom and toss the diaper in a trash can.. I dont see "place diapers here" special cans in most public restrooms, yet most of them have the changing table on the wall..



I dont understand the big deal about adult human waste. some people';s large dogs produce more than some people...



-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

so then if the issue is that meat eaters poroduce more toxic waste, then why is it widely accepted and OK to bag and toss pet waste in a normal garbage can.. most people's dogs are not eating a plant based diet.. (im sure some are).. but most dog foods contain animal product in them as feed.. . along with the fact it also seems widely acceptable for people to change baby in a public restroom and toss the diaper in a trash can.. I dont see "place diapers here" special cans in most public restrooms, yet most of them have the changing table on the wall..

That's why I question the legality and wonder about the wording.

I dont understand the big deal about adult human waste. some people';s large dogs produce more than some people...

-Christopher

Because it's "eww". Some (most???) people are weird.

[Chadci]

Originally Posted by cleff413

The main reason that composting human waste needs to be handled with more care has more to do with the type of pathogens that are potentially present. These being pathogens that infect humans, and therefore pose a biohazard. The second point to composting waste from omnivorous or carnivorous animals (including humans) is simply the chemical composition of the waste. Feces from omnivores and carnivores tend to have a higher nitrogen to carbon ratio (hotter) than those from grass eating herbivores. Omnivores like poultry will have an even "hotter" waste because the urine and feces are combined into one package simply speaking. And yes, chickens are definitely omnivores. If you have ever raised chickens you may have seen these evil dinosaurs brutally ripping apart a mouse from time to time. To repeat, though, I think the main concern with human waste is the specificity of the pathogens and parasites being tailored to human physiology and therefore a greater risk. There is some risk of zoonotic diseases (passing from animals to humans) especially in species with a long history in human agriculture or human contact, so this can be of concern but much less so that human waste.

Makes perfect sense, thanks for the breakdown. And yeah, we used to have chickens and other birds of "prey"

[cleff413]

Just to reiterate. It is not that feces from carnivorous or omnivorous animals is inherently more "toxic" or anything like that. It is just "hotter" than herbivorous animals' feces meaning that the nitrogen to carbon ration is much higher and therefore requires more carbon rich substrates to be mixed in and take longer to compost and therefore require more diligence, proper balancing with a carbon source like coir or peat and there is less wiggle room. If you improperly compost rabbit or cow feces it is less of an issue if you improperly compost dog or human waste. The idea of toxicity is more specific to humans and the amount of environmental toxins that we have including medications and the like. This is much more of an issue with somebody living in a city and taking a thousand medications than it is with say... an amish person living in the country and taking no medication and eating only minimally processed foods.
Also to touch on the type of diet a person is eating. Just because you are eating a plant based diet does not mean that your feces are akin to rabbit feces. While your waste might be less "hot" than a person that eats nothing but steak and chicken, the structure of your digestive system and the microbes present in your intestines will still influence the nitrogen to carbon ratio and still be "hotter" than any obligate herbivore's dung.

[Rogue1bus]

We’re pretty conscious about waste in general, trying to be as zero waste as practical etc. I’m planning on building a composting toilet in our Skoolie.

I don’t see the big issue with dealing with the waste. I’m ok putting it in a dumpster as a last resort but I just don’t see it needing to happen often...

-Camp grounds have bathrooms so if we’re staying awhile most solids would be deposited there. Secondary would be the campground dumpster which I would be paying for.

-boondocking is like overlanding or backpacking, dig a hole and bury the compost in the backcountry

-Traveling: situation dependent, use bathrooms sometimes and have enough waste carrying capacity to dispose of when it’s environmentally and ethically feasible.

I think through reading this I have decided I need a way to carry a larger amount of solid waste/compost. That way in areas where it is prohibited or unethical to bury it I can just store the waste/compost in a sealed container like a 5gal bucket with gamma lid till disposal is feasible. I know it’s extra work to bury waste/compost but it’s worth it to me personally to keep that material out of the landfill if possible.

Also I think it’s pretty shitty(see what I did there[emoji16]) to just dump the waste compost wherever is most convenient without being mindful of its potential effects on others. Buying a $1k composting toilet doesn’t relieve the personal responsibility to deal with one’s waste. We have a tendency to take for granted not having to deal with our own waste...

I have done some camping from a 4x4 suv with my youngish kids. I just used a 5gal camping toilet seat over a 5gal bucket mixed with leaves and dirt. I just emptied and buried it daily.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by Rogue1bus

We’re pretty conscious about waste in general, trying to be as zero waste as practical etc. I’m planning on building a composting toilet in our Skoolie.

I don’t see the big issue with dealing with the waste. I’m ok putting it in a dumpster as a last resort but I just don’t see it needing to happen often...

-Camp grounds have bathrooms so if we’re staying awhile most solids would be deposited there. Secondary would be the campground dumpster which I would be paying for.

-boondocking is like overlanding or backpacking, dig a hole and bury the compost in the backcountry

-Traveling: situation dependent, use bathrooms sometimes and have enough waste carrying capacity to dispose of when it’s environmentally and ethically feasible.

I think through reading this I have decided I need a way to carry a larger amount of solid waste/compost. That way in areas where it is prohibited or unethical to bury it I can just store the waste/compost in a sealed container like a 5gal bucket with gamma lid till disposal is feasible. I know it’s extra work to bury waste/compost but it’s worth it to me personally to keep that material out of the landfill if possible.

Also I think it’s pretty shitty(see what I did there[emoji16]) to just dump the waste compost wherever is most convenient without being mindful of its potential effects on others. Buying a $1k composting toilet doesn’t relieve the personal responsibility to deal with one’s waste. We have a tendency to take for granted not having to deal with our own waste...

I have done some camping from a 4x4 suv with my youngish kids. I just used a 5gal camping toilet seat over a 5gal bucket mixed with leaves and dirt. I just emptied and buried it daily.

Curious about your line of thinking (not picking a fight)... how is mixing with leaves and burying any different than landfill? Aside from possible secondary contact which just ain't happening with a dumpster (completely automated), it's still going in the ground. Landfills are built with safeguards. Of all the things that end up there, a bag of even raw waste is the least of concerns. Only thing there less benign would be yard waste.


And a question about bathrooms... regardless of where it is, you can't flush the compost. You aren't suggesting that are you? Trash can doesn't sound like a good idea also regardless of location. Straight to a dumpster would be best. Now if you are talking campgrounds with the vault outhouses, that's perfect except you're making more work for someone if there are a lot of people dumping often.

[Mountain Gnome]

In Puna, Hawai`i where I used to live was an intentional off-grid community called Cinderland. There were usually 80-100 people living on about 4-6 acres, with no enclosed buildings. "Camps" could be rented, or "dorm-space beds" in group camps could be paid for with work-trade. Originally the land was all cinder-ash from a volcanic flow 60+ years ago, but all kine jungle plants and fruiting trees and coconut trees were planted between camps and it is all shady now. (Now the Volcano went off last spring and the land was surrounded [spared] by a fresh lava flow, so many evacuated)

The composing toilets are above ground structures, about 5'×5' × 10' high, and there are, I think, 4 of them. It is a clothing free community so urination was requested to be done elsewhere (anywhere outside in the vegetative areas is ok). Sawdust, etc., is provided, and a user is encouraged to cover their droppings with it.

As might be imagined, they fill up quick. The land owner (named Jesus) was a client and friend of mine, and we talked often about how hard it was to manage the place (managing lazy hippies who don't like working is like herding cats to use to pull a sled). Every 2 weeks, I think he said, the toilets would fill. What to do with it?

The road leading into the property is now lined with hills, 10 feet high, 15'-20' wide, and they grow papaya, pineapples, and other food right in the compost. They also have raised bed gardens because of the giant snails that not only eat the greens, but spread "rat lung disease" (attacks your immune system and really has screwed some people up - a college professor's brain was injured, and he became nearly incoherent. He would sometimes get a spot at the open mic at the Kava bar in Pāhoa Town, and he would ramble on nonsense mixed in with advanced bio-chemistry lectures. He ended up at Cinderland where they looked out for him) I don't know what they use for fert in those raised beds, but I bet it is volcanic cinder mixed with lawn compost and human compost.

There is absolutely no unpleasant odor on this property. Just smells like the jungle anywhere in Puna.

I think they are on the internet, and one of those big news channels, CNN I think, did a special about them, but they went out of their way to ham it up. They were trying to get their own "reality TV" show. You know how fake those things are....

When in the woods, I dig a hole, minimum 6" deep when possible. I lived at the shoreline out of my 4×4 truck in a tent the last 5 months I was in Hawai`i. (oh how I miss the sound of the ocean pounding the cliff at night) The soil there was not enough to support burying a substantial amount of waste, so I got a 5 gal bucket that I filled with volcanic cinder and a 2 gal bucket to deposit in. Day two, I was overwhelmed with odor whe I opened the bucket, and I was outside in the breeze. But I used it every day, and dumped the contents on the side of the road in the jungle, covered with more cinder (it's free and plentiful), and inspected later. No flies spreading disease, etc.

Not too long ago people sh*t in buckets, and they were sent to the farm fields as fert. it is how things work in nature. Those who control the world (the international corporate fascists) have done all they can to separate the people from the earth and the farms. If you are afraid of poop, you are brainwashed. That doesn't mean it's safe to have a human-poop throwing battle. Wash your hands and all that. That doesn't mean drop it where others (humans, rats, flies, whatever) are going to be exposed to it.

If you are afraid of the heavy metals and other chemicals in the poop getting into the food you grow, stop eating all animal products now. Every bite is a lifetime of toxic buildup. Took me two years to wean myself off flesh. But I can report it was well worth it. I am healthier now, much stronger, yet leaner, and have more energy and endurance. Once I got all the impacted feces (wheat and cheese make it worse, but pizza is like crack to me) out I need to eat only a little (John Wayne was said to have 50 lbs of crap in his gut when he died!) My friends my age who used to out-hike me are all getting "old," huffing and puffing after hiking 25 minutes, while I hike 20 miles a day easy. The sad part is only women in their 20s can keep up with me....

[Rogue1bus]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

Curious about your line of thinking (not picking a fight)... how is mixing with leaves and burying any different than landfill? Aside from possible secondary contact which just ain't happening with a dumpster (completely automated), it's still going in the ground. Landfills are built with safeguards. Of all the things that end up there, a bag of even raw waste is the least of concerns. Only thing there less benign would be yard waste.


And a question about bathrooms... regardless of where it is, you can't flush the compost. You aren't suggesting that are you? Trash can doesn't sound like a good idea also regardless of location. Straight to a dumpster would be best. Now if you are talking campgrounds with the vault outhouses, that's perfect except you're making more work for someone if there are a lot of people dumping often.

When I say use the bathroom I mean the person walks to and physically using the facilities not dumping anything there.

As far as a hole vs landfill, the process is similar but ecologically very different. Waste in a hole will pretty rapidly break down and feed the surrounding plants in a natural way resulting in a healthier Ecosystem and no usable space lost (real estate).

A landfill contains a massive amount of materials that take a really long time to break down, and that breakdown is extended even further because of the size preventing materials from contacting airflow and soil etc.
Furthermore toxic and non toxic materials are present in landfills and decomposition can produce toxins and environmental hazards and spread contamination to the surrounding areas. Best case the landfill is just space being taken up and rendered unusable for convenience sake, at least for a while, worst case they contaminate the planet and fill it up with garbage.

I’m not on a crusade to vilify normal people, just think about where your garbage is going, what it does to the planet, and is that impact worth the convenience?

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by Rogue1bus

When I say use the bathroom I mean the person walks to and physically using the facilities not dumping anything there.

Ah gotcha. Kinda figured that was a given tho. I almost do that now as it is. I'd rather use the TP that work buys than use all of mine at home. Walmart and gas stations can have some sketchy bathrooms but I don't usually get grossed out by public bathrooms. Certainly not like the germaphobes.

As far as a hole vs landfill, the process is similar but ecologically very different. Waste in a hole will pretty rapidly break down and feed the surrounding plants in a natural way resulting in a healthier Ecosystem and no usable space lost (real estate).

Gotcha again.

I’m not on a crusade to vilify normal people, just think about where your garbage is going, what it does to the planet, and is that impact worth the convenience?

Well, they are supposed to be self contained for run-off and all that jazz. Baltimore county landfill for drop offs is fairly anal about separating everything. The garbage collection company employs a bunch of nancy boys. I can't tell you how many times they have left my trash can untouched because it weighs more than 37 lbs. they are a serious pain in my asss.


Anywho, the bag of compost is going to be long gone before the bag of tin cans and glass bottles that it is buried next to ir in the landfill. The earth moving equipment will hopefully crush the glass and cans to cut down on the sheer volume but even so there will be settling as stuff decomposes. I'm not terribly hippy dippy but I am more so than my daughter. I'm constantly pulling the TP rolls out of the bathroom trash because recycle bin is so far away. SMH, you're going downstairs later, leave it on the counter and grab it on the way by.

[cleff413]

I'm not trying to pick a fight but just have to say that one does not need to go vegetarian or vegan to be healthy and cut down on heavy metals in their bodies. I think most vegetarians and vegans feel much healthier because they move from a SAD (standard american diet) to a much healthier one. I personally consume plenty of animal products, but I'm careful where I source them, and yes, I feel much healthier pushing 40 than I ever did in my 20's. I think it is important (to me personally) how I source all of my food. I buy produce locally grown wherever I can as well as locally and ethically raised meat and eggs and I eat wild game meat. As we have decimated the native Bison populations in the plains, grass-fed cows can be a very ecologically healthy way to manage grasslands... sorry, may be a no-no to engage in this type of debate and it is a bit off topic in a sense. I'm just tired of people acting like a meat free lifestyle is the only way to be healthy and ecologically ethical.

[Mountain Gnome]

Originally Posted by cleff413

I'm not trying to pick a fight but just have to say that one does not need to go vegetarian or vegan to be healthy and cut down on heavy metals in their bodies. I think most vegetarians and vegans feel much healthier because they move from a SAD (standard american diet) to a much healthier one. I personally consume plenty of animal products, but I'm careful where I source them, and yes, I feel much healthier pushing 40 than I ever did in my 20's. I think it is important (to me personally) how I source all of my food. I buy produce locally grown wherever I can as well as locally and ethically raised meat and eggs and I eat wild game meat. As we have decimated the native Bison populations in the plains, grass-fed cows can be a very ecologically healthy way to manage grasslands... sorry, may be a no-no to engage in this type of debate and it is a bit off topic in a sense. I'm just tired of people acting like a meat free lifestyle is the only way to be healthy and ecologically ethical.

When I ate hamburgers, I used to scorn hunters. Now I love them. I scorn factory farms. I don't think meat free is "the only way"; it is just a fact that our world is now full of highly toxic chemicals. No water spring in the world (!!!!) is DDT-free for instance. Dioxin from using chlorine permeates all soil everywhere. We all eat it, veggies and omnivorous and carnivores. It builds up in animal tissues, ours, cows, etc. Eat the cow meat, chicken meat, and you eat it in concentration. The egg may be less.
But most people you see with "belly bulge" have fat, yes, but it is mostly impacted feces. However, now that I gave up modern processed grains, I see personally that it is the combination of the two. I can see it in the qualities of my feces....but let's not get into gross descriptions of that.
Smoke crack if that's what you want to do. I think it is your right. it was hard for me to give up meat. After a year, I went for a Fudrucker's: world's best hamburgers. My old favorite resaurant. One bite, and I hated it. "I used to like this?!?!?!?!" But that's me. You be you.

[cleff413]

Fair enough Mountain Gnome As an agricultural researcher, I am well aware of the environmental toxins present and the risks involved but would have to push back on the "no water spring in the world being DDT free" as the evidence suggests otherwise. Don't get me wrong, though! Most water is contaminated in one form or another and bioaccumulation is a real risk. I also know how crops are grown quite intimately and even the "organic" crops are grown with large amounts of pesticides. I respect your choices and even the choices of those that would go to Fudruckers every night. Working in the sciences, though, I can't help myself sometimes to chime in when I find some information to be inaccurate or misleading. I realize this annoys some people so I try to do so politely I wish all the greatest health and happiness on their journeys.

[Mountain Gnome]

And when I gave up meat, I was still eating mainstream factory food (garbage). But my health improved, and my body improved. But that is me. I am only sharing my experience. You do what is right for you!