1934 Wayne Daysailer

[Daysailor]

And so we begin... Actually, the beginning was almost 2 years ago when I first saw the bus for sale. I was inspired then, but proud to have been "mature" enough to pass it up. I didn't have time for another project and as cool as it was, I just had (have) many many other things to do. Well, 8 months later, the owner emailed me and inquired if I was still interested in the bus. Second chance? Of course! Better judgment out the window - it was time to land this beast. After making a deal on the phone, I went and looked at the bus and offered full price. The owner then informed me that he had previously sold it another person and he had the handed over the title! What?!? After a month or so, we sorted it out and headed over with a rollback wrecker.

The bus is roughly a 1934 Wayne that is currently on a 1952 Chevy chassis. Story goes that it was originally a Studebaker school bus. At some point the Stude gave up and the bus ended up at a logging camp. I assume that's where it was creatively transplanted onto the Chevy and spent it's remaining useful days. The previous owner to me purchased it 20-30 years ago and never got around to working on it. Enter me. I don't know why I have an affection for busses - always have. I image that you all have the same problem!

I decided that to get the most out of this bus it had to get up and running soon (I have 5 and 7 year old kids) and it has to be reliable ie. not breaking down on the way to school or camp or wherever. I've got enough vintage original vehicles that I don't need another and this one left its original state 60 something years ago, so there's no crime being committed. For our family, the purpose of the bus is to be a daysailer - kids sporting events, tailgating, ski bus, etc. That means a fridge, stocked liquor cabinet, bbq, storage for chairs and light gear etc. I'd also like to be able to take a slew of kids on a field trip too, so I want plenty of seating. It's going to be 4x4 for the ski hill too.

So it begins. I started in on it a few months ago, but I'll post pics as we go. Prepare for take off!

[sdwarf36]

First off-congrats on a great looking ride! That thing will be awsome once finished.
Second-from all of us that have restored our buses in alleys-in the street-behind tattoo palors-in fields far from home-pheowee on you! #garagejelousy

[Tango]

Welcome! --- And I'm in love. Great old unit & history. Rare to find a conversion that old but it appears to be in excellent shape for it's age. Oh yeah...and ditto the garage envy!

You mention 4 x 4...can't tell from the pix, is it currently that config or is all new running gear part of the master plan? Engine? Tranny? Tell us more. Inquiring minds want to know.

[bansil]

should be sweet when done, please update pictures as the journey continues

[Daysailor]

I want the bus look largely vintage and original. At first glance, you should think original and old. So everything I do has to be within the space occupied by a 1936 Wayne bus -- if that makes sense. After looking at tons of pictures found by searching "1934 Wayne," I landed on and International nose. There are several Ford versions which look great, but the parts were tougher to find and more expensive. I found an 1936 International nose in great condition. I decided to go with easy GM running gear. I'm after a Chevy 350 with fuel injection and auto trans. Keeping it simple. A big block might make sense, but I'm in no hurry and the smaller engine seems to make sense for fitting and for fuel economy. I like diesel a lot, but I don't want the noise of a Cummins 12 valve. This bus is supposed to be simple to operate - turn on and go and be clean and quite (don't want my wife to be turned off right off the get go!). There are axle width issues to handle as well.

Right now, the bus is on the '52 Chevy frame, but it has no applicability to a modern GM 4x4 nor a 1936 International. The problem is that the old trucks required an original frame to hold the fenders. Their shape is defined by the frame. So - how to meld a GM front - engine mounts, transmission, transfer case, front axle, and steering AND the old frame? Another factor is that the in old trucks, the radiator and engine are much further behind the axle than modern vehicles. That is the quandary de jour. Originally, I though that stuffing a new and complete GM frame, engine, and trans would be simplest, but now I'm finding that the engine will have to move back relative to the axle and maybe even move up so the headers can clear the frame. The old truck frame is also very narrow. So, at the moment, I'm thinking the best solution is to retro-fit all the running gear into the original International frame - - everything has to move anyway
- at least the body will be in the correct place.

[attachment=1]Ford 1934 Bus.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]35 International 5.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=2]IMG_20140202_143001_026.jpg[/attachment]

[Tango]

Best of luck on the hunt for the right nose --- And I do relate to the many considerations of fitting anything into/onto the narrow tapering frames that were common back then. My '46 Chevy/Wayne is going to be a really tight fit even for the Cummins 4BT I'm stuffing in. I am looking at pushing it back almost 18" from where the original was located and just building a small doghouse over the back of the motor and tranny hump.

And keeping the original axles, rims & tires absolutely make for the best vintage look but that choice does pose a few problems. Tires are getting harder and harder to come by and being tube type subject to old school "blowouts" (I never did find anything but Chinese in the right size). And unless you can live with a top speed of 45 mph...gearing can be a real issue. I spent three years trying to find alternative "highway" gearing but came to the conclusion there simply wasn't such a thing made before the Interstate highway system came into being. And there are no aftermarket options for these rare ducks.

Rear axle replacement is fairly easy as there are a number of duallies that will fit just fine (mine is sitting on a '98 Chevy 3500 Dana 80 HD). The front is a whole different story. To get to anything like a modern front end with decent brakes (something that becomes a necessity if you plan on going over the aforementioned 45 in a unit that big)...can get tricky. All the modern axles in that weight category are about 8 -12" wider than these old front ends. There is a chap over on the Stovebolt Forum who narrowed a P30 axle to fit, but it was a major undertaking. Which reminds me...on that same forum is a macinist who is just now wrapping up a disk brake adapter kit that will fit a lot of the early 1.5 and 2 ton Chevy axles. If you are interested in such an upgrade I can hand off a link.

These old buses are fun and look great but do take a fair amount of time to pull together right. That's what makes this Forum the absolute best resource on the planet for us bus nuts.

Good luck with it all and please do keep the pix coming.

[bradsbus119]

Sweet.Nice to see this get saved!!

[Tango]

Seen this?...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Ot...US_Cars_Trucks

[ol trunt]

Darn, I should have waited--my '35 Chevy cost me $1600! However, unless you want to move the motor way back you'd have to do a lot of tin work on that narrow pointy front end if you were to put a diesel in like Tango and I did--but it would be cool to have another one running around Jack

[Tango]

Jack...you NEED another project just to keep you out of trouble!

[Daysailor]

Wheels and Axles -

Major part of the re-build and keeping the original look are wheels, tires, and axles. The problem is keeping the narrow track width. First off, the tires need to be narrow and tall. Original sized tires are an option from Coker tire, but they're expensive and biased ply. The other problem is fitting the old lug pattern 20" wheel to modern axles (disc brakes). I looked into re-drilling the vintage wheel for modern 8 or 10 lug and also considered cutting out the center and welding in a new bolt circle, but decided for safety sake, a newer wheel would be better. The old wheels are split-rim too. The best modern fit to the old 6.5 or 7.0 x 20 tire is the 8 x 19.5 motorhome tire. This is a radial that still can be purchased without too much trouble. For wheels, every problem is solved with the 19.5 bread van wheels that bolt directly on to 8 lug axles. To get the track width right, I measured a lot of different rigs - regular vans, older pick-ups, newer pick-ups, independent suspension, solid axle etc. to find a suitable donor. The trick is using a 1980's solid 4x4 front axle - not dually. It is the perfect width when using dually 19.5 wheels. Most 2WD rigs are independent suspension or, if not, are old to the point of having drum brakes. I'm using a donor 1988 Suburban with the standard Dana 44 front axle and disc brakes. Arguably, it may be a tad light duty for the bus, but the bus wont be incredibly heavy. In the rear, I got an axle from an 80's cab/chassis truck. It is 2" narrower than the standard dually axle and will be just right under the bus.

[Tango]

Just for the record --- The narrow 6 x 19.5" Chevy C3500 HD rims from around '98 match the 10 log pattern you have perfectly. The main difference being that the center hole is a half inch larger in diameter. This is critical as both rims are "hub centric" meaning it is the hub, not the lugs that keep it in the correct position. I made adapter rings so that they fit my '46 front axle. Also check the wheel stud size. Most later models (like the C3500) use a slightly larger lug bolt & nut but fitting the larger lugs is pretty easy. A local machine shop did mine.

Like you, I really wanted to keep the old tall & narrow wheels but there were just too many rational arguments against the idea. OK if all you ever do is drive it in parades twice a year but not if you plan on doing much traveling in your rig.

BTW...Bridgestone makes the tallest and narrowest tires for the rims I have and may have something similar for yours. The tallest I could find works out to 33.6". Definitely shorter than the originals but at least it doesn't look like a lowrider.

[ol trunt]

I battled the same problem and ended up reducing the wheel well openings front and back to match the 215/85 X 16 wheels I used. The new wheels have the same design as the originals right down to the lug pattern of my '35. Unless an original truck was parked next to the bus, no one would even look twice. Jack

[Tango]

Very Trick Set-Up! --- Duallies up front and Triples in the rear!

BTW...has anyone else noticed the use of 24" wide tires on a lot of big rig trailers lately? Apparently they are using them now in place of duallies. Gotta wonder about that since trailers routinely blow tires. At least with a dually set up you are still up and running on the "other" tire.

[Daysailor]

After I bought the International nose, we were on a trip in Pennsylvania and went to the car museum in Hershey. The displays are great with full size painted and 3 dimensional backdrops that put the vehicles in realistic settings. But down in the basement where the keep the "less important" vehicles is an awesome bus collection. There are around 20 busses ranging from the teens through 50's. It is cool to be able to see the progression through the years. As I was drooling on the busses going up through the years, I came upon a yellow school bus. Low and behold, it was a Wayne - of my vintage. After going crazy on that, I noticed further that it was on an International chassis just like mine! So, I took a million pictures and detailed out the way the cowl fit to the front and all that good stuff. Turns out, this bus was used in the movie "Ray" as Ray Charles and band went on tour. Anyway, here are some bus museum pics.

[Daysailor]

1936 International at the Hershey Auto Museum

[somewhereinusa]

I used to deliver vans to Rohrer bus sales in Duncannen,PA. Always very nice to truck drivers,
which puts them high on my list of nice people.

http://www.rohrerbus.com/company/history/

They might be of some help in research.

[Daysailor]

Thanks for the link. And Rohrer actually restored this bus, so there may a good contact there if the need arises.

[Daysailor]

Here are the last 5 months summarized in 6 pictures. It looks neat and tidy in the pictures, but I've been cutting 100's of bolts with a cut-off wheel and taking this thing apart piece by piece. Everything is labeled and photographed - I hope it goes back together!

[Daysailor]

Lots of demolition! The last picture is the bare flatbed. The next step (current step) is to reproduce the floor panels and floor ribs, then re-attach the uprights that hold the wall panels. This will all begin after I sort out the new frame.