Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-11-2017, 11:30 AM   #2431
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,026
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowoplover View Post
feel the need to jump in here. I have been lurking here for a couple of years and following along on your build with great interest since the beginning. Great job BTW! I have lived in Texas all my life (just North of Dallas) all my life (66yrs. last week), and been a licensed electrician for the last 40+years. I think you have things well under control with your wiring idea. The PVC should give you no trouble due to heat from the road. The plastic plumbing idea you have is very similar to what we in the trade call "smurf pipe". Found in any big box store. as far as the wire. What ever color you are going to use is fine. helpful to color code for future reference. definitely run a ground, either green or bare. If you are running single wires, go for THHN or THWN. Either of these are rated for 60*C. wire insulation is rated for "internal temp". #12 THHN or THWN is rated for 40A at 600V. not sure what you are going to hook up, but they should do what you need to do. Almost forgot, in this case, I would recommend stranded wire, easier to pull, and better with vibration. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Dowoplover
I can appreciate your input as we have about the same pedigree but I ma retired now for 10 years. Funny how our codes differ between Canada and the US of A. Never have I seen an application where #12 is rated to carry 40Amps as you mentioned. Our code allows only 20 amps at any voltage and any type of cable.
As I mentioned about the method being used, if the bus is lost due to fire, don't expect to be reimbursed for the loss. And that would be a damn shame after all the excellent work he has done to this point. It doesn't take any more work to install it properly.
If one looked at the job they could come up with a fairly straight route and use the proper materials.

John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 11:41 AM   #2432
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 9,577
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I never knew of 40 amp on #12.. I suppose theres some applications? i was always told never more than 20 amps on a #12 wire..

I dont knopw about everywhere.. I know vehicle fires dont seem to be investigated like building fires..

I had a silverado burn up in a fire... the ins co sent a 3rd party investigator as did GMC.. I notified my ins co but followed the claim through GMC since the truck was 5 months old.. both of them looked under the hood.. took a few pics and said 'yep its crispy'.. no chemical testing, no testing of how thick burn patterns were at certain points etc.. they somehow determined that my fuel rail cracked and burnt the thing up.. GMC gave me a new one...

a fire regardless in a motorhome would be a bad thing ....

to be truthful, is the flexible PVC conduit really rated for use in a vehicle??

I suppose running 120 volt lines underneath is a no-no no matter what? I dont know enough about motorhomes to know where the wires usually go.. inside or outside..

or do you just bundle the SO and run it in the open?

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 12:29 PM   #2433
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,026
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I never knew of 40 amp on #12.. I suppose theres some applications? i was always told never more than 20 amps on a #12 wire..

I dont knopw about everywhere.. I know vehicle fires dont seem to be investigated like building fires..

I had a silverado burn up in a fire... the ins co sent a 3rd party investigator as did GMC.. I notified my ins co but followed the claim through GMC since the truck was 5 months old.. both of them looked under the hood.. took a few pics and said 'yep its crispy'.. no chemical testing, no testing of how thick burn patterns were at certain points etc.. they somehow determined that my fuel rail cracked and burnt the thing up.. GMC gave me a new one...

a fire regardless in a motorhome would be a bad thing ....

to be truthful, is the flexible PVC conduit really rated for use in a vehicle??

I suppose running 120 volt lines underneath is a no-no no matter what? I dont know enough about motorhomes to know where the wires usually go.. inside or outside..

or do you just bundle the SO and run it in the open?

-Christopher
Well I agree on the #12 at 20 amps anywhere in the world that I know of.

As far as fire hazards, you are lucky you got reimbursed. I did on two occasions, one a Z28 and passersby tried to put it out. I said get away and let it burn now. The other was a dodge diesel pickup and the wiring harness melted in the dash going down the road, both brand new vehicles.

So would be better run in free air as that is what it is designed for and hazardous locations, extremely tough insulation. Run it outside , a few straps and you are done.

The question of pvc in a vehicle is a good one. Inside yes, outside probably ok but it just melts, slowly and blobs into a gooey mess. Outside it is certainly better than pool hose for its fire retardant composition. Nobody wants to get trapped rolling down the road with a fire underneath you. Your chances are much better with pvc than pool hosing.
Like I said, they do not have to pay out on the policy if they see that type of workmanship. It's no wonder skoolie people have trouble getting insurance and staying insured. No standards as to how they are built.
I value my life and the time I have put into my bus.

I hear you Chris on the wrap on your bus harnesses that are aged. Mine are pretty good too but oily and greasy in places. They are more for dressing the harnesses in to the scheme of the engine layout. They are just cheap shields as far as I'm concerned for 12V systems and not even in the same conversation as the AC installations as far as safety.

Best vehicle fire I ever saw was a Dodge dually, brand new, with a huge 5th wheel on back. The tranny line on the truck blew and caught fire from the exhaust I guess. Next thing both vehicles were engulfed in flames and in a matter of minutes both were destroyed. Only the owner's pride got hurt. But chit happens when you least expect it.

I know tango has done excellent work thus far but there must be a better way. I'm only pointing out unsafe possibilities for all and sure think he will have a beautiful bus.The hours and hours of hard work are worth protecting, no?

John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 12:54 PM   #2434
Bus Nut
 
Phatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Brazoria County, Texas
Posts: 299
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 32 Passenger
Remember Tango, SO means - Service cable, Oil resistant. 600 volt rated.
SJO means Junior Service cable, oil resistant. 300 volt rated. The 600 volt will take a lot more punishment. Cadillackid is right. None of it is probably code in a 4 wheel house. Personally I would use flexible PVC. Just my 2 cents worth.
Phatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 02:30 PM   #2435
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 2,754
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
SO cable in conduit.......
Using pool hose as conduit....
Ampacity questions & confusion....

I keep typing and erasing responses to this discussion. I am going to limit my response to one item:

READ NEC ARTICLE 551
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 04:10 PM   #2436
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 9,577
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Well I agree on the #12 at 20 amps anywhere in the world that I know of.

As far as fire hazards, you are lucky you got reimbursed. I did on two occasions, one a Z28 and passersby tried to put it out. I said get away and let it burn now. The other was a dodge diesel pickup and the wiring harness melted in the dash going down the road, both brand new vehicles.

So would be better run in free air as that is what it is designed for and hazardous locations, extremely tough insulation. Run it outside , a few straps and you are done.

The question of pvc in a vehicle is a good one. Inside yes, outside probably ok but it just melts, slowly and blobs into a gooey mess. Outside it is certainly better than pool hose for its fire retardant composition. Nobody wants to get trapped rolling down the road with a fire underneath you. Your chances are much better with pvc than pool hosing.
Like I said, they do not have to pay out on the policy if they see that type of workmanship. It's no wonder skoolie people have trouble getting insurance and staying insured. No standards as to how they are built.
I value my life and the time I have put into my bus.

I hear you Chris on the wrap on your bus harnesses that are aged. Mine are pretty good too but oily and greasy in places. They are more for dressing the harnesses in to the scheme of the engine layout. They are just cheap shields as far as I'm concerned for 12V systems and not even in the same conversation as the AC installations as far as safety.

Best vehicle fire I ever saw was a Dodge dually, brand new, with a huge 5th wheel on back. The tranny line on the truck blew and caught fire from the exhaust I guess. Next thing both vehicles were engulfed in flames and in a matter of minutes both were destroyed. Only the owner's pride got hurt. But chit happens when you least expect it.

I know tango has done excellent work thus far but there must be a better way. I'm only pointing out unsafe possibilities for all and sure think he will have a beautiful bus.The hours and hours of hard work are worth protecting, no?

John

transmission fluid is CRAZY flammable.. ive watched more than one drag car bust a motor mount and subsequently a Transmission line.,. only to go up into a Bright white-orange ball of fire.. (not the dark orange like palstics etc).. for some reason more than one racer ran trans lines up on the frame near the motor mounts (and the headers are nearby)....

recently (when i was bringing redbyrd home).. i ran across a Semi fire in its beginning stages.. i could see the steam / smoke.. the driver was trying to wave people down... he was off to the side on a ramp going into an abandoned weight station.. I stopped and he tried to nail it with 2 extuingishers. and got it knocked down decently.. but no one.. Not even other truckers would stop.. the fire broke the firewall and got in the dash.. I knew it as I saw the A/C vents start to melt.. that was when we both backed away and the whole thing soon went into a Ball of flames! the fire dept of course took forever..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 04:12 PM   #2437
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,455
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
To that I'll add one more thing: as of more than a year ago National Fire Protection Association offers free online access for their codes. The reader isn't great, but it is accessible without paying a hefty price to buy a copy of their various standards. NFPA 70 is also known as the National Electric Code/NEC. That code can be found on their web site. I believe a free account on their web site is required.

On that page, at least as a logged in user, I have a "FREE ACCESS" button I can click beside the bold text "View This Document." After clicking the button, a drop-down below asks to choose which version of the code I want to see. I'd just use the latest unless I was doing work where a particular version is required. Click the Select button, accept the pop-up license agreement, and there you are. Click the "Table of Contents" button at the bottom center of the viewer window for easier navigation to the section of interest.

The Article 551 PNW_Steve mentions is titled "Recreational Vehicles and Recreational Vehicle Parks."
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 05:39 PM   #2438
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 2,754
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post
To that I'll add one more thing: as of more than a year ago National Fire Protection Association offers free online access for their codes.
Thank you Family Wagon. That is a great resource.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 08:37 PM   #2439
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
No idea where anyone got the idea of 40 amp loads. All my circuits are either 15 or 20. Well below what this wiring is rated for.(???)
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 10:15 PM   #2440
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,026
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Post 2421 mentions 40 amps on a 12 awg wire. Not sure what that was all about either.

John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All Or Bussed! 1990 Chevy Shorty Bus mellowdaizy Short-Bus Conversion Projects 6 02-07-2014 07:35 AM
Wayne Bodied '54 Chevy Shorty on Ebay Tango Classifieds | Buy, Sell, Swap 0 09-30-2011 09:52 AM
1955 Chevy shorty in CO: check this out! Stuff Classifieds | Buy, Sell, Swap 2 08-05-2011 08:55 AM
1983 chevy shorty A/C question trentwyrick98 Short-Bus Conversion Projects 0 05-24-2011 02:11 AM
New Member, 1959 Chevy Shorty 59Shorty Skoolie Conversion Projects 2 07-24-2007 11:58 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.