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Old 11-03-2014, 05:13 PM   #801
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Update --- the chap on the Stovebolt site who did the front axle chop said the pads on my new axle are almost certainly NOT cast iron, but rather cast or forged steel and should be conventionally weldable. They "spark tested" like steel, but I could detect some crystalline bubbles where I broke off a tiny piece that did not get fully cut through. More research, but I would still like to figure a way to cool it slowly.

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Old 11-03-2014, 08:14 PM   #802
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

From personal experience, I think you might be worrying a bit too much. I've built a few rear ends for race cars. The current one in my car is a Toyota-shortened on one side + longer on the other. And I welded all the brackets and shock mounts on there too. I'm hitting Vt. potholes at up to 100 mph. I have no signs of any cracks after 10 years of this. And I've rigged up a fixture to measure if the rear is still straight-it is to .020-1 ft off centerline. I've heated the rear up with a torch + cooled it to get it that straight.
Picture if you just clamped your upper + lower perches around the housing-now tighten down the U bolts-how much force you think is on that? 8 X 5/8" bolts-torqued to 120 ft lbs? Betcha its pretty high.
Its modern metal-as long as you get good weld penetration, it will be just fine.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:35 PM   #803
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

If I understood Tango correctly, the issue is welding castings not the axle tube material--I'd agree that the tubes can be easily welded and will hold a lifetime. The reason castings differ is because steel castings are granular in nature while the molecules in rolled steel form linear bonds. The only example I can think of off hand is what happens when you try to weld bed frame material (granular in nature). It seems to weld just fine but after a short period of stress it breaks at the weld leaving behind a sandy looking fracture. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with steel castings or bed frame material for that matter. Both materials are very strong and should be used for a variety of things as long as they are properly fastened. Jack
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:21 PM   #804
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Thanks Guys --- you both have very good points. The local welding guru I spoke with today said that cast steel is indeed similar to cast iron in that the bubbles are there. But, he felt conventional mig welding would work just fine if...(once again)...it is properly pre-heated and annealed. Still trying to sort the last part out. Need to figure out how to keep that big sucker from cooling too quickly.

Will let you know what I find in that regard. Still researching.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:49 AM   #805
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Would halogen lights or a salamander, aimed at the area, and slowly moved away not be warm enough?
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Old 11-04-2014, 09:37 AM   #806
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Good question Somewhere --- I was looking at small, radiant propane heaters last night wondering the same thing. Still have to hear back from another old-pro welder for his thoughts. Getting quite a range of opinions so far.
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Old 11-08-2014, 05:52 PM   #807
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Howdy All --- Pleasant weather here in Houston and I have gotten a little more done on several fronts.


My stainless fuel door is ready to go in. Added a rubber weather seal to the inner flange



Here it is in place on the outer panel. It goes on as soon as we have the rear axle installed.


New 19.5" rims sandblasted, painted and new, tubeless tires installed.


New rear leaf springs from Eaton Detroit. Had them cut the load in half and drop the height about 3" (it was that much higher in back)


Of course, mounting those springs onto the new Dana axle required a few mods. This is my Pad Fix Kit.


The four, small fillets were tricky.


Here are two of them in place and ready to weld.


Once they were welded, the top plate was attached. The positioning was critical.


After a couple of passes with the mig and a little grinding & paint...they almost look like they belong there.

Next?...bring along some help and get that big a$$ Dana axle in!

Onward!
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:15 PM   #808
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango. Looks beautiful as usual. It looks like you did a "mix and match" on the spring perches--could you give a short explanation of what you did? Thanks, Jack
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:58 PM   #809
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Howdy Jack --- I'll keep it as short as I can, given the "issues" involved.

Had to move the perches outboard by 7/8". But then, the springs that fit the '46 are only 2-1/2" wide while the Dana axle uses 3" wide springs, so I had to cut the perches back to accommodate the 2-1/2" replacement springs. That meant removing some metal from the inner edge of the Dana perches to accommodate the 2-1/2" U-bolts while building out the extra on the outside. Surprisingly, the original '46 springs mount wider than the new gen "wide axle" option that Chevy has these days.

After cutting away at the original pads, I put together 3/8" plate mounts parts to sit atop the Dana pads. They consist of the top plate (the easy part) as well as an outrigger fitting around the axle tube to support the plate that hangs over by 7/8", plus four small fillets to tie it all together. Does that make any sense at all?

The biggest question was regarding welding. The Dana pads are cast steel which can be tricky to weld to plate or common steel, but after a lot of discussion, I wound up just mig welding all the parts together using lots of oxy/acetylene pre-heating, peening and modest annealing (2 hours?).
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:52 PM   #810
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Baby Steps Continued --- Got new shock towers fabbed and mounted up front. Will finish installing the shocks after the paint dries a bit.


The new shocks. They took about a month to find in the right size & configurtion.


The old, lower mounts were fine but the uppers were gawd awful hacks held on with a couple of bubble gum welds. These are fabbed from 3/16 & 3/8 in. steel and are at least equal on each side. The cobbled affairs I cut off and replaced weren't even close to matching.

Tomorrow...the new rear springs and axle go in. Then...back to that other little detail...the engine/tranny combo.

Onward!
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:08 PM   #811
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Following along with great interest. You and Jack impress the heck out of me with your ability to make it up as you go.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:38 PM   #812
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Thanks Roach --- while I can't speak for Jack...I'm just trying to make the best of a stupid call. I could have been done long ago except for the fact that I have to rebuild virtually every component of this relic. Believe me...there are many times when I ask myself what I was thinking. It would have been so much simpler to have bought something that already had the basics in place. You know...stuff like an engine, transmission, steering, brakes, axles and little stuff like that.
But, you know how "love" is. I fell for a pretty face and she turned out (as usual) to be a High Maintenance mistress.

Too late to turn back now.

Onward!
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:31 AM   #813
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Amen and ditto to that!
Jack
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:24 AM   #814
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

A few more steps ahead --- Nothing to shout about, but some small progress...


New rear springs in place along with new pins & bushings.


500 pounds worth of Dana 80HD axle finally in place. Then discovered the u-bolts sent are not right and must be replaced. Will likely also have to adjust the angle for better alignment with the rest of the driveline.

Meanwhile, up front...


Added the aluminum accessory plate to the little Cummins diesel so I can have A/C & alternater tucked in.


While in the neighborhood, I replaced the oil filter with this plate so it can be remotely located. Where? I've no idea yet, but it had to move.

My advice to anyone contemplating basically building a bus from scratch...
Start at a much younger age!

Onward!
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:32 PM   #815
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Or, speking for myself----a much fatter check book The remote oil filter is a good idea. Could it go inline with an oil cooler somewhere? I can hardly wait for you to finish your bus so we can plan a meet somewhere half way between Texas and Kalifornia . Jack
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:04 AM   #816
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Howdy Jack --- Definitely should hold our own Vintage Skoolie Bus In somewhere. And deeper pockets would certainly speed up the process.

The remote filter plate bolts right over the stock oil cooler that sits in the water jacket. As you probably know, Cummins has several different oil filter configurations and given the squeeze I'm working with, this should help a bit. I will very likely set up a dual filter arrangement somewhere. There are a bunch of aftermarket options available. Below is a pic of the horizontal mount I removed. It was in conflict with the alternator, a/c, frame and just about everything.



And speaking of pix...where are all those shots from the Mead trip?

Onward!
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:30 PM   #817
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Been a while, but work continues --- Or should I say "continues to expand". The latest rounds involve getting the ginormous Dana 80HD axle hung properly and reconfiguring the front hubs. Both have been...challenging. Turns out, the new U-Bolts are made with more curve than the originals which had been forged flat to fit snugly on top of the springs. No one makes that type anymore so "adjustments" are being made. Looked into having said new units flattened out but that was nixed by people with far more metallurgical savvy than I as a really bad idea. Next try involves fabricating upper base plates that will accommodate the existing modern bolts curve. Then there is the matter of getting the driveshaft angle right. As it bolts up, it is a few degrees off from proper alignment. I am hoping the 2 degree angle blocks I just ordered will correct that little problem. Should know in a few more days.

Then there is front end to rebuild. I am replacing the shoe brakes with disks via a kit being built by another chump...er, conservationist who also took on making a 70 year old Chevy road worthy. He also happens to own a large machine shop, so hopefully, he knows what he's doing. But like most "little projects" of this nature, he has been working on this kit for almost three years now. I'm getting a little nervous, as I have committed to this change in a big way and there is no going back. Let's hope he gets it wrapped up soon as I am ready to start bolting it on...now. Well, actually, in about a week, because I decided to also replace all my front lug bolts to match what is on the rear and properly fits the 1998 Chevy rims that will go all around. Taking care of that little task required pulling the hubs & brake drums then dropping them off at a local machine shop. The hub itself is a pressed fit beyond the limits of my pry bar...plus the holes for all the new wheel studs have to be very carefully reamed out to accept the new & ever so slightly larger lug bolts.

Ain't it funny how these thing morph from a quick fix up to get it rolling into basically building a %#$@!# bus from scratch?

Onward!
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:47 PM   #818
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, what are your plans for the master cyl and booster? Not that you'd want to necessarily, but are the brakes at the axle set up for ABS? If so it wouldn't be all that much more work just to add it on. Also, you probably could install early (1980's) rear axle gizmo that limited fluid to the rear brakes when the axle began spring wrap. My Chevizuzu has both devices though the gizmo isn't used for anti lock but rather as a way to get the front brakes into the game sooner when the cargo bed is loaded down. Instead of spring wrap actuating the valve, body drop under load does. It sure is fun to make suggestions to everyone else and not have to suffer the same treatment since I've already made all my preliminary mistakes . Jack
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:44 PM   #819
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Jack --- never heard of the gizmos you just referenced. But I do plan on installing an adjustable proportioning valve. Is that anything like what you are talking about?

Still shopping master cylinder set ups. Given I have no vacuum (that diesel thing), I am looking for a hydroboost system. A couple of guys on the Stovebolt forum have installed late model units under the floor of their antiques that appear to work quite well and that's where mine will no doubt end up. Just have to remember to make accommodations in the floor for checking/filling the master or use a remote reservoir. The latter sounds a lot easier to deal with.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:15 PM   #820
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango. When you get a chance in some parking lot somewhere--like Home Depot , shinney under an old Chevy one ton flat bed and look on top of the rear axle for a brake line attached to a device with a lever arm which in turn is attached to the chassis. It does function as a proportioning valve in a sense in that it limits fluid to the rear brakes when the axle tries to wrap up the leaf springs. The proportioning valve you are talking about is used to set the system pressures at 60/40 ratio or whatever but its function is static and not modified by load or load shift during braking. Clear as mud I suspect. Jack
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