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Old 05-08-2017, 08:45 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty View Post
These were reamerless (??) bushings. It explicitly states on the box, "DO NOT REAM!"

I'd be surprised if there were any semi-modern kingpins that didn't have a reamerless bushing option these days..
They make reamerless, they're way easier, just not available for my axle though
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:53 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Sweet jesus. I absolutely HATE having to press anything. Unpressing even more so. That does it; I'm buying a pneumatic hammer. It'll be a cheapy from Horrible Freight but still.
The air hammer is nice for some things, but it tends to mushroom the end that it's pushing on. In all reality, it probably made that one stuck draw key even more difficult to remove. I'd say that if the air hammer isn't moving the draw keys with a handful of cycles then it needs to be put down.

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Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Screw that. I'd be more worried about the bus or the supports under the bus. I don't want to lift the bus and then have it drop when it suddenly breaks loose. Granted you only left until it's just clear of the support but still. If it's a stack of 6x6s or something...
Right indeed! I had cribbing under the axle. I only pushed on the kingpin with the hydraulic jack enough to lift the axle about 1/8". Then I tapped the axle a couple times with a hammer, but decided against going full on BFH.

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Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
So, how did you drill them? Mopre exactly , how did you keep the drill bit from walking? Even if you used a smaller bit and worked your way up, there's no way it was centered and stayed centered thru the length of the pin. Any little bit of angle and you're screwed.
The draw keys are 1/2" diameter, so there's a lot of meat to work with. I started drilling with a 3/16" bit. Half way through one side, then half way through the other. I wasn't dead center, but close enough that daylight could be seen. Then I attempted increasing the hole diameter with several other drill bits. With the hole open enough to let some ignited oxy-acetylene pass through I was able to melt that really sticky bugger out. With the other less sticky one I drilled it out in increasing diameter bits until it would whack out.

That's the simplified version of what went down, of course. There were several broken drill bits involved (oxy-acetylene melts drill bits out really quick, btw), all sorts of hammering, cussing, burnt hair... Also, you're gonna want to know how to crudely resharpen a drill bit. The edges were constantly breaking off of mine. I resharpened drill bits over a dozen times..



You must note that most kingpin jobs for southern buses are going to be significantly easier. My bus is a rusty b-tard. Still solid, but everything has rust on it.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:58 AM   #223
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Join Date: May 2014
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Engine: 6.9 International
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I had to drill my draw keys out too. I used a rescue bit that I already had in a die grinder https://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Bit-Br.../dp/B00B1E7KCK . After heating it up beating the hell out of it trying to get it out, it seemed to be hardened enough that the drill bits I tried wouldn't work.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:01 AM   #224
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
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Chassis: B3800 Short bus
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And I'm sure a handful of comments will be posted about taking it to a shop due to the effort and work involved, but look at all the neat stuff I've learned!! I now have a better understanding of the vehicle and the engineering that went into it. This is why I do these things.. Satisfaction.

Also, I called one shop and was quoted $1000-1500.. Pay them to have all the fun?? No thanks..
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:03 AM   #225
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Year: 1999
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty View Post
The air hammer is nice for some things, but it tends to mushroom the end that it's pushing on. In all reality, it probably made that one stuck draw key even more difficult to remove. I'd say that if the air hammer isn't moving the draw keys with a handful of cycles then it needs to be put down.
I was thinking air hammer on the axle body??? Whatever the kingpin is going thru. Using the vibrations like a sonic cleaner to bust andy rust, crud, and whatever else loose. Maybe just a needle gun even.

Quote:
The draw keys are 1/2" diameter, so there's a lot of meat to work with. I started drilling with a 3/16" bit. Half way through one side, then half way through the other. I wasn't dead center, but close enough that daylight could be seen. Then I attempted increasing the hole diameter with several other drill bits. With the hole open enough to let some ignited oxy-acetylene pass through I was able to melt that really sticky bugger out. With the other less sticky one I drilled it out in increasing diameter bits until it would whack out.
I have a borrowed oxy/ace but haven't even lit it yet.

Quote:
Also, you're gonna want to know how to crudely resharpen a drill bit. I resharpened drill bits over a dozen times..
The hell I am. You're a better man than me. I would have rage quit already.

Quote:
You must note that most kingpin jobs for southern buses are going to be significantly easier. My bus is a rusty b-tard. Still solid, but everything has rust on it.
Yeah, about that... mine is a WV bus. Not a lot of snow nor salt but my floors are fairly nasty looking. Frame isn't terrible but it isn't LincolnEcho's bus either. That rat bastard has 25k more miles, same year but is spotless. He also paid $2200 more but still.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:29 AM   #226
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Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty View Post
This is why I do these things.. Satisfaction.
You sir are a sick puppy!!

Quote:
Also, I called one shop and was quoted $1000-1500.. Pay them to have all the fun?? No thanks..
I spent all weekend changing an alternator on a 2007 Focus for my gf's daughter. Shop quoted her $400~$500. It's a 15 minute job; 3 bolts, 1 wire, and 1 connector.

WRONG!! First, the alternator is mounted under the engine. Who the hell does that?!!? The two damn threaded rods that the alt hangs on are 2~3" longer than the flang of the alt. You need 2 or 3 threads past the nut. Why in the hell are they 2~3" longer than that??? Even the one bolt that backs all the way out isn't that long.

The tensioner pulley according to all the diagrams I found was a 10mm nut. The serpentine wrenches only go as small as 13mm. Next day I buy a 10mm socket and hit it with the grinder both both ends. Still too long. Hit the rental tool with the grinder to shorten the socket post a bit. Still too long. Use a short little 10mm cresent and the nut turns. What the hell?!!? It should be spring loaded. Tighten it, belt stays the same. Loosen it, belt stays the same. That's lot of torque for a 10mm head. Turns out it's a different pulley with a 13mm head. Serpentine wrench doesn't fit it either. At least I have 13mm wrench long enough to overcome the spring.

Once you slide the alt to the end of those rods, it hits the AC lines, a fuel line (steel), and a 1" diameter wire bundle. Now that you move that crap the 1/8" to a 1/4" you need, you can't drop the alt down thru the bottom the rest of the way. There's a driveshaft and steering rack in the way. You have to pull the alt up thru the top of the engine moving those same damn wire bundle, fuel and AC lines. After you've removed the heat sheld from the top of the header of couse. The heat shield on the manifold is also in the way but it has two O2 sensors passing thru it. Along with some bolts you can't easily reach since the car is on jack stands and you're leaning over a fender. I'm 6'2" and can't reach, scratched to hell and already madder than a wet hen (oit's raining). The manifold heat shield was folded over and out of the way.

Start the car up and the battery light is off!! ... for about 30 seconds. Drive the 3 blocks and get the battery tested. It's only one week old. Maybe it's low enough that the alt is working overtime. 611 amps out of a 580 amp battery; it's golden. Get back to the house. Start the car and unplug the battery. The car dies instantly. Alt is dead. Check all the fuses. They're good. Put the car back up and the connector you can't see because of the angle, is unplugged. I thought I had it turned the right way and it stayed upt when I plugged it in. But it was backwards. Flipped it and got the click this time.

Satisfaction, ... hell not. But too cheap to spend $500. Not even my car. The gf owes me big time!!
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:01 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
You sir are a sick puppy!!

I spent all weekend changing an alternator on a 2007 Focus for my gf's daughter. Shop quoted her $400~$500. It's a 15 minute job; 3 bolts, 1 wire, and 1 connector.

WRONG!! First, the alternator is mounted under the engine. Who the hell does that?!!? The two damn threaded rods that the alt hangs on are 2~3" longer than the flang of the alt. You need 2 or 3 threads past the nut. Why in the hell are they 2~3" longer than that??? Even the one bolt that backs all the way out isn't that long.

The tensioner pulley according to all the diagrams I found was a 10mm nut. The serpentine wrenches only go as small as 13mm. Next day I buy a 10mm socket and hit it with the grinder both both ends. Still too long. Hit the rental tool with the grinder to shorten the socket post a bit. Still too long. Use a short little 10mm cresent and the nut turns. What the hell?!!? It should be spring loaded. Tighten it, belt stays the same. Loosen it, belt stays the same. That's lot of torque for a 10mm head. Turns out it's a different pulley with a 13mm head. Serpentine wrench doesn't fit it either. At least I have 13mm wrench long enough to overcome the spring.

Once you slide the alt to the end of those rods, it hits the AC lines, a fuel line (steel), and a 1" diameter wire bundle. Now that you move that crap the 1/8" to a 1/4" you need, you can't drop the alt down thru the bottom the rest of the way. There's a driveshaft and steering rack in the way. You have to pull the alt up thru the top of the engine moving those same damn wire bundle, fuel and AC lines. After you've removed the heat sheld from the top of the header of couse. The heat shield on the manifold is also in the way but it has two O2 sensors passing thru it. Along with some bolts you can't easily reach since the car is on jack stands and you're leaning over a fender. I'm 6'2" and can't reach, scratched to hell and already madder than a wet hen (oit's raining). The manifold heat shield was folded over and out of the way.

Start the car up and the battery light is off!! ... for about 30 seconds. Drive the 3 blocks and get the battery tested. It's only one week old. Maybe it's low enough that the alt is working overtime. 611 amps out of a 580 amp battery; it's golden. Get back to the house. Start the car and unplug the battery. The car dies instantly. Alt is dead. Check all the fuses. They're good. Put the car back up and the connector you can't see because of the angle, is unplugged. I thought I had it turned the right way and it stayed upt when I plugged it in. But it was backwards. Flipped it and got the click this time.

Satisfaction, ... hell not. But too cheap to spend $500. Not even my car. The gf owes me big time!!
I did the timing belt on our focus. That alternator is definitely BURIED! No good way of doing that job.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:12 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
You sir are a sick puppy!!

I spent all weekend changing an alternator on a 2007 Focus for my gf's daughter. Shop quoted her $400~$500. It's a 15 minute job; 3 bolts, 1 wire, and 1 connector.

WRONG!! First, the alternator is mounted under the engine. Who the hell does that?!!? The two damn threaded rods that the alt hangs on are 2~3" longer than the flang of the alt. You need 2 or 3 threads past the nut. Why in the hell are they 2~3" longer than that??? Even the one bolt that backs all the way out isn't that long.

The tensioner pulley according to all the diagrams I found was a 10mm nut. The serpentine wrenches only go as small as 13mm. Next day I buy a 10mm socket and hit it with the grinder both both ends. Still too long. Hit the rental tool with the grinder to shorten the socket post a bit. Still too long. Use a short little 10mm cresent and the nut turns. What the hell?!!? It should be spring loaded. Tighten it, belt stays the same. Loosen it, belt stays the same. That's lot of torque for a 10mm head. Turns out it's a different pulley with a 13mm head. Serpentine wrench doesn't fit it either. At least I have 13mm wrench long enough to overcome the spring.

Once you slide the alt to the end of those rods, it hits the AC lines, a fuel line (steel), and a 1" diameter wire bundle. Now that you move that crap the 1/8" to a 1/4" you need, you can't drop the alt down thru the bottom the rest of the way. There's a driveshaft and steering rack in the way. You have to pull the alt up thru the top of the engine moving those same damn wire bundle, fuel and AC lines. After you've removed the heat sheld from the top of the header of couse. The heat shield on the manifold is also in the way but it has two O2 sensors passing thru it. Along with some bolts you can't easily reach since the car is on jack stands and you're leaning over a fender. I'm 6'2" and can't reach, scratched to hell and already madder than a wet hen (oit's raining). The manifold heat shield was folded over and out of the way.

Start the car up and the battery light is off!! ... for about 30 seconds. Drive the 3 blocks and get the battery tested. It's only one week old. Maybe it's low enough that the alt is working overtime. 611 amps out of a 580 amp battery; it's golden. Get back to the house. Start the car and unplug the battery. The car dies instantly. Alt is dead. Check all the fuses. They're good. Put the car back up and the connector you can't see because of the angle, is unplugged. I thought I had it turned the right way and it stayed upt when I plugged it in. But it was backwards. Flipped it and got the click this time.

Satisfaction, ... hell not. But too cheap to spend $500. Not even my car. The gf owes me big time!!
and *THIS* is One (of many) reasons why I have NO GIRLFRIEND!!! (Praise god for making me gay!).

I never did understand locating the alternator on the bottom.. where it can constantly get wet and salted on and everything else nasty.. plus it seem the alternator goes bad before whatever is on the top.. Planned diealer service $$ I guess...

-Christopher
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:28 PM   #229
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 2,963
Year: 1999
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, AT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I did the timing belt on our focus. That alternator is definitely BURIED! No good way of doing that job.
Serp belt looked good and I didn't go any further than that. I did explain to them all that the timing belt is a $30 part that costs $600 to replace. $30 for the belt itself, $100 in labor, and $500 in Pain In The A$$ fee.

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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
and *THIS* is One (of many) reasons why I have NO GIRLFRIEND!!! (Praise god for making me gay!).
At the time I wish I didn't either.

Saturday the daughter's bf was there. He's looked under a hood half a dozen times in his life maybe (from the sounds of it). And the sister's bf was there. Fairly sure he's looked under a hood less than the half dozen. But at least he was useful in "Here, hold this..." without further explanation.

The gf and the two daughters...
Do you have a grinder? ... What's that?
Do you have a Dremel? ... What that?
Hand me a 10mm socket in a 3/8ths inch drive. I got a 3/8ths crescent.

Towards the end of the first day, Daughter 1 was starting to catch on. I need a 10mm socket that will fit this *sticks out 3/8ths ractchet.

Quote:
I never did understand locating the alternator on the bottom.. where it can constantly get wet and salted on and everything else nasty.. plus it seem the alternator goes bad before whatever is on the top.. Planned diealer service $$ I guess...
The alt was shoved up right next to the heat shield covering the manifold. The only semi cool thing Ford did is put a plastic piece of ductwork on the alt so it wasn't sucking in hot air. Of course the bolt placement for keeping the duct on the alt was poor.

As much as I hate it, I'm ok with Mercedes using a Mercedes only computer for diagnostics, BMW putting a code on swapping out a battery sucks too. But when you design **** to be difficult to your own techs, I just don't get it.

There are ZERO reasons for those rods to have been that long. It's not even like the alt itself moved for the belt tension like old school and rear drive. AN inch shorter and it would have still been too long for the application but wouldn't have hit the hoses. It's not like I want the AC in the trunk so I can get to the steering rack or something hugely different in design.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:42 PM   #230
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Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
im sure the explanation for the rods is they use them on 16 different cars instead of just 1.. and some bean-counter purchasing agent got a Bonus for suggesting they use the same rods on all the cars.. doesnt matter that the techs waste 3X the time on warranty repairs to get the alt. off... its that 2 cents per car at sale that matters.. someone's bonus..

just like back in my HVAC days... a rooftop unit got swacked by lightning.. it was one ofthe first with full computer control so i took the call.. (the unit was about 8 years old) all the wiring was melted, boards fried, the fans even blew the motors shorted... I quoted out like 60K to fix it... and suggested replacement.. sales came along and gave them a price of 50k to forklift it and replace with the latest greatest...

next thing I know im called to go replace and program all the computer boards.. (other team did the mechanical and wiring work).. WTF? building manager: "oh I have plenty of money in my Maint / repair budget but not much in my CAP-X.. if I bought a new unit i'd loose my bonus for keeping my new expenditures down.. so im rebuilding this one.
-Christopher
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